1. Women are not vending machines that you can drop kindness coins into until sex falls out.
“Women are not vending machines that you can drop kindness coins into until sex falls out.”
2. Friendship is not a down-payment for sex.
“Friendship is not a down-payment for sex.”
3. Using tactics from romantic comedies will only creep girls out.
“Romantic comedies are nothing like real life, and using the tactics shown in them will only creep the object of your affections out, not win them over.”
4. Truly nice guys don’t need to announce it.
“Proclaiming yourself a nice guy is the problem. People who are genuinely considerate and decent don’t have to declare themselves honest and nice. People know them to be so by their behavior.
Behaving nice specifically as a means to impress women and as a means to an end is not genuinely being nice.”
5. You’re supposed to be nice, anyway.
“You don’t get special credit for showing the bare minimum of human decency.”
6. If you have to tell someone you’re nice, you probably aren’t.
“Actual nice guys don’t have to tell a woman they are a nice guy. My husband is a kind-hearted man, a great man, he never once told me he was a good guy or a nice guy. He showed me. So, if you have to tell someone you are nice or good, chances are you probably aren’t.”
7. If you are only acting ‘nice’ to get laid, that doesn’t actually make you a nice person.
“If you are only acting ‘nice’ to get laid, that doesn’t actually make you a nice person.”
8. The fact that you’re nice isn’t why I’m not attracted to you.
“Please understand that we do like nice guys. The fact that you are a nice guy (or so you think) is NOT the reason someone isn’t attracted to you.”
9. Your desperation is repulsive.
“Womanity is not withholding sex from you and waiting for you to say and do the exact right combination of things to unlock the sex gate. Your desperation is repulsive. Women want sex, too, but don’t want to risk pregnancy, herpes, or your clingy drama for a shit lay. She has interests to protect, too, and you are mostly antithetical to them. Stop being that.”
10. Whining is so unattractive!
“Whining is so unattractive! Dude, I find some things that aren’t conventionally attractive, attractive. You don’t need to be a movie star 10. I like skinny dorks, a lot. But if you bitch about how you are ugly and point out your flaws and whine about how it’s unfair? Ew.”
11. ‘Nice guys’ tend to put women up on a pedestal. Don’t do that.
“‘Nice guys’ tend to put women up on a pedestal. Don’t do that. I don’t want to be worshipped and have my ass kissed and I don’t want to have to try and live up to the idealized version you have of me in your mind. I just want to be treated like a regular human being.”
12. There is no such thing as friend zone. There is an ‘I don’t find you sexually attractive whatsoever’ zone.
“There is no such thing as friend zone. There is an ‘I don’t find you sexually attractive whatsoever’ zone. And you’re in that.”
13. It immediately makes you immature.
“It immediately makes you immature. It’s the equivalent of saying ‘I’m not like other girls.’ Sure maybe you are/aren’t but proclaiming it does nothing for proving it.”
14. Just because you’re ‘nice’ doesn’t mean I owe you anything.
“That just because you’re nice to me, it doesn’t mean I owe you anything in return.”
15. Beneath the ‘nice’ veneer often beats the heart of a stalker.
“One of the reasons why a woman isn’t comfortable coming out and saying, ‘I don’t want to date you because I am not attracted to you’ and has to use other, softer reasons (I’m busy, I’m just out with my girls tonight, etc.) is because of a genuine fear that things could go south during the conversation and a guy who seemed nice at first could get violent or start stalking her. Not that that extreme scenario would happen with every guy she rejects, but it only needs to happen once for it to affect her life.
One thing most women experience (frequently, this is not rare at all) is an exchange like this, esp online: ‘Hey, beautiful’ ‘Oh, hi.’ ‘Hey, wanna go out sometime?’ ‘Sorry, I have a boyfriend now.’ ‘You think you’re better than me, you stupid bitch??? You’re not that hot anyway. I’m not gonna bang a 4 like you when I’m scoring 8s and 9s practically in my sleep. HAVE FUN BEING A CUNT.’
We have learned to soften the blow and are afraid of being too direct because that violent outburst would be 3000x worse in person than online. These conversations usually start off reasonably nice, and you never know who the violent guy is going to be (they blend in with other guys, Agent in the Matrix-style), so we have to be cautious.”
16. Desperation is the opposite of sexy.
“Desperation is the opposite of sexy, and it very often smells like excessive solicitousness. Reasonably attractive girls are as turned off by a Stage 4 Clinger as reasonably attractive guys are.
You see ‘generosity’ when you send her a gift you can’t really afford. She sees a pressure play, and starts worrying about the strings attached.
You see ‘friendly interest’ when you ask her all about her life, and take notes. She sees prying, and starts worrying that she can’t leave her phone unlocked around you.
You see ;TLC; when you want to spend lots of time with her doing all the things she likes. She sees a social vampire of guy who doesn’t have anything worthwhile of his own going on, and starts worrying that you expect her to be richandamy.
You see “old fashioned chivalry” when you freak out about her opening her own door or offering to split the check or dealing with a creep without male support. She sees a guy who’s so insecure he can’t stand the thought of a woman autonomously dealing with real adult life, and starts worrying about the embarrassing scene you’re going to cause when an ex-boyfriend drunk dials her.”
17. If you expect something in return for being nice, you are not a nice person.
“If you are interested, tell her how you feel. No, giving hints doesn’t fucking count as not everyone picks up on those. And it does not matter how obvious you think it is, it’s all up to her.
If you don’t tell her how you feel, then she doesn’t know how you feel. If there’s a friend zone, it’s your own damn fault. It’s like refusing to go up a set of stairs and being upset that you’re not on the next floor.
Not every guy she’s dating is an asshole. You only think that because you’re jealous.
Or maybe he is an asshole to you because you’ve had a shit attitude toward him and acted all possessive of her.
And the reason she’s always dating other guys is at least they asked her out.
You just might not be her type.
Or she’s not attracted to you. There are people you don’t find attractive.
Don’t say you know you’re her type. You know nothing; it’s up to her.
Movies (and books! Credit u/Johnlan101) lied to you. Pining isn’t romantic.
If you hold it against her that she’s not into you, you’re not a good friend
In fact, unless you want to be her friend for the sake of having her as a friend, you’re not her friend.
If you offer to do things, you don’t expect any repayment unless previously agreed upon.
If you think she owes you sex, you are wrong.
Leonard Lake thought like that.
If you want sex for your money or services, find a hooker or be a sugar daddy,
As u/fleckofly pointed out, too many ‘nice guys’ go into a scary ass bitch fit when rejected. We all hear stories about this (see Leonard Lake above). Don’t do this.
IF YOU EXPECT SOMETHING IN RETURN FOR BEING NICE, YOU ARE NOT A NICE PERSON.”
18. The fact that you’re nice isn’t why she doesn’t want to fuck you.
“The friendzone is made up. Girls lean on it a lot when they don’t want to tell a guy that they’re unattractive. If a girl says that she doesn’t see you in “that way” what she means is that she values your friendship but that she doesn’t want to fuck you. End of story. It’s not like you got yourself into this situation by being nice or by trying to be her friend – if you hadn’t been nice she still wouldn’t want to fuck you, to reiterate, she is not attracted to you.
If you want to be friends, be friends. If you’re here to fuck, don’t pretend otherwise.
PS: moping and crying about the ‘friendzone’ isn’t winning you any points either. Unreciprocated love sucks, we get it. Move on.”
19. Nowhere is it written in the stars that anyone has to like you.
“Self-deprecation isn’t cute. If you say things like ‘Oh, I’m such a loser’ or ‘No girl is ever going to date me,’ even in a jokey way, it will not elicit any positive feelings from the person you said it to. It’s like a woman saying ‘Ughhh, I’m sooooo fat.’
Similarly, if you view yourself as a lonely forever-virgin, or the guy who girls just love to ‘friendzone,’ then that’s going to come across pretty obviously to women, and that isn’t attractive.
Literally nowhere is it written in the stars that anyone has to like you, let alone want to date you. Nobody is contractually obligated to think positive things about you. You have to be a likable person to get people to like you. Sometimes it takes more work for certain people, but if you don’t do the work, people don’t like you.”
20. I didn’t ‘friendzone’ you, you ‘sexzoned’ me.
“Sex is not a right. It is a privilege, and most of all, it is a choice. You do not get to decide for me. You do not have a right to me. I don’t owe you a ‘chance’ any more than you owe some annoying girl you aren’t attracted to a ‘chance.’ You aren’t nice, you’re making me uncomfortable when you don’t back off, and me calling you on your shitty behavior doesn’t make me the one at fault.
If you were really my friend, you wouldn’t make our relationship about your own desire for sex and intimacy from me. I didn’t ‘friendzone’ you, you ‘sexzoned’ me, and you’re a really shitty friend if you never even wanted to be friends in the first place. If you pretend to be my friend, then turn on me when I don’t want to fuck you, YOU ARE THE ONE WHO WAS MANIPULATING ME, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.”
21. I didn’t choose a ‘bad guy’ over you, just a good guy with tattoos.
“If I wanna date jerks that’s my prerogative. Don’t fucking bitch me out because your pissed I’m not dating you. Likelihood the ‘bad guy’ I’m dating is just a good guy with tattoos.”
22. If you frame us as children in need of your White Knighting, you’re a perv.
“Stop protecting us from sex.
We’re human, too, and independent agents quite capable of deciding when we’d like to fuck and get fucked. If you see us slipping off with a ‘bad boy’ it’s because we’re down to fuck, not because our pretty little heads have been manipulated or mislead.
And if you frame us as children in need of your White Knighting, you’ve no business pursuing a romantic relationship with us anyway, ya pervs.
News flash: sex is awesome. Get on board or GTFO.”
23. Treating a girl like shit for rejecting you means that you’re not a ‘nice guy.’
“That no means no and treating a girl like shit for rejecting you means that you’re not a ‘nice guy.’”
24. You’re not nice, and nobody owes you sex.
“You’re not nice, and nobody owes you sex. Women don’t like ‘assholes’—they like non-socially-retarded, non-self-congratulating, self-assured, ATTRACTIVE dudes. That’s it. If you don’t fall into at least one of those categories, that has everything to do with YOUR PERSONAL SHORTCOMINGS and nothing to do with the woman you fancy being a ‘bitch.’
TL;DR: Get over yourselves. No one owes you sex, especially in a world where you can get all the sex you want for a fee. If you need to get laid, either get a hooker or get a better personality.”
25. Spinelessness is not attractive.
“Having a backbone doesn’t make you an asshole. Spinelessness is not attractive. Kindness AND assertiveness? NOW I’M MOIST.”
26. If you can’t handle rejection without getting nasty, you’re not nice.
“If you think being nice makes you entitled to sex, you’re not nice.
If you can’t handle rejection without getting nasty, you’re not nice.”
27. When you get angry with a woman because she didn’t like you the way you liked her, that is not nice.
“When you get angry with a woman because she didn’t like you the way you liked her, that is not nice.
When you attempt to emotionally loan shark by being ‘nice’ or ‘a good friend’ and expect sex or a relationship instead of friendship in return, that is not nice.
When you call someone you allegedly care about stupid or criticize their choices because they choose something you didn’t want them to, that is not nice.
When you demonize their boyfriend and try to drive an emotional wedge between them by showing how ‘nice’ you are, that is not nice.
When you fake willingness to help, or fake interest in what they have to say because you are trying to show how nice you are, that is not nice.
When you ignore all the mean, petty, manipulative, or unpleasant things you do and then self-describe as ‘nice,’ that is not nice.”
28. Codependency isn’t sexy.
“Codependency isn’t sexy. Be nice, but be nice from a distance. A real good distance.”
29. Calling yourself a ‘nice guy’ automatically makes you a douchebag.
“Who the fuck would call themselves a ‘nice guy,’ anyway? As soon as someone says that they are automatically a douchebag until proven non-douchebag.”
30. Embracing the victim mentality does not make you nice.
“Embracing the victim mentality does not make you nice. The world is not out to get you. Nice guys do not always finish last, but lazy people usually do.”
31. The more you whine about women not wanting to fuck you, the less women will ever want to fuck you.
“The more you whine about women not wanting to fuck you, the less women will ever want to fuck you. And to the ‘nice guys’ who say it’s not just about sex and that they genuinely want a meaningful relationship with a woman: the more you whine about no one wanting to date you, the less likely it is that anyone will ever want to date you.”
32. There is a difference between being nice to someone and being nice at someone.
“There is a difference between being nice to someone and being nice at someone.
I’ve seen so many ‘nice guys’ throw their niceness at girls who didn’t reciprocate and paid only the barest of polite attention to those guys, and when the guys realized it wasn’t going to result in a relationship, they got pissed off. ‘But I was so nice to her!’ No, you were nice at her. She smiled and said thank you instead of telling you to fuck off, because that’s how normal human interaction works, but you were the one not realizing that she wasn’t actually returning your attention or affection in any way, she was just being polite.”
33. Being a ‘nice guy’ is just a ploy to get some ass.
“The ‘nice guy’ mentality is exactly the same as the ‘jackass’ mentality: to get some ass. A nice guy isn’t pursuing women because he values them as people; he’s doing it because he wants to get laid. I don’t care how ‘nice’ you think you are, I can tell when you’re hunting me and it makes you exactly the same as the guys you complain about.”
34. The reason we don’t like you is that you’re boring and whiny, not because you’re ‘nice.’.
“The reason we don’t like you is that you’re boring and whiny, not because you’re ‘nice.’
Develop new skills, be courteous to everyone, not just your boner target.
A person’s personality has many facets. Nice should not be your only trait, and the fact that you aren’t even actually nice makes it worse. Chase happiness within yourself, lighten up, practice being more outgoing. Expand your horizons. Being nice does not define nice people. It is simply a result of their character. Staaaaaahp.”
35. I don’t care how nice you are, I’m not leaving my husband.
“I don’t care how nice you are, I’m not leaving my husband just because you feel like you’re nicer to me than he is. (I’ve had this issue for years now.)”
36. Nice doesn’t mean good.
“Nice doesn’t mean good.”
37. Being ‘nice’ isn’t enough.
“That being ‘nice’ isn’t enough. What women are looking for is a good boyfriend, not some generic nicerton.
I’ve dated plenty of guys who the world at large deems ‘nice.’ They’re polite, non-confrontational, pleasant. A big problem is, they’re too busy being ‘nice’ to bother being a good boyfriend. They don’t want to stand up for me if I need them to, because then that would be ‘impolite.’ I asked the guy I was dating to avoid a man I dislike immensely for very good reasons (which my boyfriend knew) when we were at a function none of us could get out of. So of course, my boyfriend, The Nice Guy, did absolutely nothing as this guy got into my space, engaged me while I actively tried to leave the conversation, and smiled politely. Of wait, did I say nothing? I meant ‘made jovial small talk with.’ He was much more concerned with not appearing slightly rude or standoffish in front of people he didn’t even know than he was with how I felt or what I needed.
Being non-confrontational also doesn’t mean you’re kind or a good boyfriend. It usually means you’re either a doormat or a liar. If these Nice Guy exes disagreed with me or didn’t want to do what I wanted to do, the reaction wasn’t ‘no, because reasons’ or ‘let’s do something else.’ It was either to roll over and agree with me, while silently seething and stewing and resenting me while I was oblivious, or to pretend to roll over and agree with me, then do/say the exact opposite when my back was turned. They were not concerned with their own needs, and never considered that compromise or debate was possible, and certainly didn’t give a fuck about how lying to me or resenting me secretly would make me feel. They just wanted to avoid the momentary discomfort of me thinking they weren’t being ‘nice.’
The thing is, they had very little to offer other than being ‘nice.’ Once the veneer washed off and I realized that they had no interest in being loving and supportive to me, but just wanted to maintain the image of ‘not being a mean dude’ to everyone forever, there was nothing there. They had been skating through life on doors held open, smiles, and avoided arguments for their whole lives, and never bothered to develop any other valuable traits because they’d been getting headpats for being ‘nice’ for decades. Eventually, it no longer is worth it to give a guy a chance just because he’s moderately pleasant.
And that’s from the point of view of having dated these guys, and only done so after getting to know them ok, and confirming that they were, in fact, pretty nice dudes. If I don’t know you well, ‘nice’ is an informed ability. I have no evidence to confirm some dude I just met is nice. A lot of guys are like ‘if you gave me the chance, I would, I could.’ But….you’re not doing, you’re talking about what you might do in the future under the assumption that you get a reward in advance. First off, human emotions are not a reward. Second, saying “I would, I will, I can” doesn’t mean anything, only what you actually do has value. If you give me a million dollars today, I could march down the street naked singing showtunes tomorrow. I certainly could. That doesn’t mean that you’d be making a wise investment to give me a million dollars now in anticipation I won’t take the check and flee into the night.
Finally, the way ‘nice guy’ talk about other men is creepy, hateful, and weird. Every guy who isn’t as passive and avoidant as them is labeled a douche, a creep, an asshole, a ‘Chad,’ whatever. Most of those guys are just more confident and assertive than you, and less preoccupied with maintaining a non-confrontational image at all costs, even if it hurts you and those you claim to love. A lot of them are nicer than the ‘nice guys,’ too.”