People can be homophobic but not anti-gay.
I do not like seeing overly PDA for gay couples. Even for hetero couples it bothers me but maybe I have become more desensitized as I am more bothered by gay couples. I also am not a fan of what passes as “gay culture” these days. That being said, I have gone and voted for anything that is pro-gay rights. Just because I have a personal issue with it does not mean I cannot realize that from a political and legal perspective everyone should have the same rights.
There’s a big difference in parading down the street in a pink tutu wearing a rainbow shirt as a man with a giant strap on and saying you want equal rights than showing people that gay relationships are normal. I think a lot of people who are outspoken about LGBT relationships fail to realize that in order to get respect they can’t tear down heterosexual relationships in the process, we all need to coexist. Attacking traditional marriage only serves to polarize and create homophobic sentiments. You cannot change people’s minds in general, they will change themselves if they grow and learn.
There is a huge push on channels like HGTV and MTV to educate people about gay lifestyles, but they really get way too overblown a lot, with borderline distasteful with jokes and flamboyant personalities, which are generally not representative of most LGBT people, and overblown and ratcheted-up for ratings. It’s kind of like the impressions/damage that bad rappers portraying gangster life do/show to people who don’t know black people. It creates bias and prejudice. I know real people, and that’s all I care about. The pink wigs, makeup, loud voices, etc are not real. Ellen is real, Wanda Sykes is real, George Takei is real, the public needs more real (in that sense) for their education.
Everyone can have fun, but I can’t help to think about how young eyes can see the sexual overtones on TV and get really bad ideas about it all, even the hetero scenes and just reality TV is so over-scripted and provocative these days to drive ratings. There is a much better middle ground where all relationships can be shown in a more realistic light which isn’t happening. In the same way I’m against PDA and even most (racy) hetero bedroom scenes shown on TV these days, when I want a porno I watch a porno. Some things should stay in the bedroom period among ALL sexual people for the greater good of society, some of yall are some freaky somabitchez… Not me, I’m waiting until I’m married to my 3rd wife.
I asked my (gay) uncle about this, and he basically said he got enveloped in the “gay culture” because coming out felt so liberating to him after so many years of being in the closet (he came out when he was like 17). Nowadays, he still has the stereotypical “gay” voice, but otherwise he’s just a normal dude.
I think people largely tend to do it because they’ve found a culture that accepts them for it and encourages them to be more outspoken about it. They’re finally proud of who they are and proud that they don’t have to hide it anymore, so sometimes they get a bit extreme with it (he didn’t have that stereotypical voice until after coming out, so it obviously wasn’t inherent). Similar to how goths/hipsters/whatevers sometimes tend to go a bit overboard with it — the culture supports it, and you’re now around all of these new friends and want to feel like you’re part of the group.
Anecdotally, I’ve tended to see more older guys who are less “flamboyant” about it, and more younger ones who are more flamboyant (with plenty of exceptions, obviously).
I don’t like gay culture. If being gay is your main defining feature, then you must be a very dull person.
5. A follow up
As a gay man, it used to bother me a lot. Not to get into that whole feminine/masculine gay bullshit, but I never really fell into many gay stereotypes. Partially just because I didn’t, partially because I actively tried not to. To me, a lot of the gay pride events and stuff were too much. They were weird and excessive and gross. I figured that we would never be accepted if we seemed to be trying to stick out so often.
To this day, being gay does not define me. I don’t think of myself as gay first, I just happen to like other guys. But at the end of the day, I had it easy. I was born in a time where it’s becoming more accepted. I was never bullied for it. I came out in senior year of high school and people took it all so in stride, I never heard a single negative word. Other people don’t get that. So that “culture” is where they feel like they don’t need to hide it. They are who they are. They’re not ashamed of being gay. So it gets a bit insane. If that’s what makes them feel accepted then who the hell am I to interfere.
“Never forget what you are, for surely the world will not. Make it your strength. Then it can never be your weakness. Armor yourself in it, and it will never be used to hurt you.”
I’m only against the push for gay in society. I don’t care what you do. Stop bombarding me with it everywhere. I’m against the constant push in media and society. Here is a question for pro-gay. Why do you need everyone’s approval?
I view homosexuals the same way I view any other sexually deviant groups (e.g. pedophiles, paraphiliacs, asexuals, etc.). I don’t think that true homosexuals choose to be that way, just as pedophiles don’t choose to be pedophiles. Instead, I believe that their brains are chemically different than heterosexuals’ brains, or that they have gone through some sort of trauma. In this way, homosexuality is not “normal” to me, but because it doesn’t harm others in the way that other sexually deviant groups can (e.g. pedophiles, bestiality), I don’t see any logical reason to stop them from getting married.
However, I also don’t see any reason for me to go out of my way to support homosexuality or support their attempts to make homosexual marriage legal. Like asexuality, homosexuality is a non-helpful trait that some people have, like an extra toe. It has no evolutionary advantage. If I were a homosexual or asexual person, I would probably try to ignore it and act heterosexual. After all, therapists try to treat pedophilia and bestiality. Why wouldn’t they try to treat homosexuality and asexuality, even if those orientations don’t overtly harm anyone? If other sexual preferences can be “treated,” then so can homosexuality. If they can’t, then homosexuality can’t be treated either. But I, personally, don’t know either way if sexual preference can be changed, so for now, I’m not going to go out of my way to either support or campaign against gay marriage.
That being said, the behavior of some (not all, of course) homosexuals is making it unnecessarily difficult for more conservative people to accept homosexuality. I went to a large liberal arts university in NYC, and some of the gay people I knew were just straight up inappropriate. For example, one male homosexual tried to finger my female friend, claiming that it was okay because he’s gay and just wanted to feel a vagina. Another gay friend consistently wore belly shirts, extra low-rise jeans, and thongs to class. A third gay hallmate of mine kept hitting on my heterosexual friend in an attempt to “turn him gay,” despite constant rejection. Some gay people are also ridiculously loud, sing loudly when no one wants to hear them (e.g. on buses, in the library, etc.), and are generally outgoing in a bad way. Inappropriately flamboyant behavior like this violates societal norms, such as the norm of keeping genitals covered in public, or the norm to not sexually harass people, or the norm to not engage in overly sexual public displays of affection. Again, not all homosexuals are like this, but the ones that are stand out a lot and give homosexuals in general a bad name.
I feel like there are very few actual quality comments, so here I go. As a Christian, I believe that God created us for heterosexual marriage. He created man and woman, and called it good. Heterosexual sex is a gift from God, it is something that we should cherish and delight in. Throughout the Bible, it is clear that homosexuality is a perversion of God’s original gift. It is something immoral. When I see a homosexual couple, it makes me sad. This is not because they sicken me, disgust me, or because I think that somehow I am better than them. It saddens me because they are partaking in an act that is the very perversion of the good gift that God granted us. I do not think that Homosexuality is a choice. It is very obvious through the homosexuals that I talk with and am friends with, that it is not a choice. However, this does not mean it is alright to act on these urges. If a man had powerful urges for theft, lying, or adultery, he would not be sinning. The urge itself is not a sin. However, if you act on them, it is wrong. The way that most anti-gay activists treat homosexuals (including me) is to try and love them. “Love the sinner, hate the sin.” It is a very cliche quote, but it is true. I just try to love them and if the topic comes up, explain to them why I don’t think that it is right.
I’m no longer anti-gay, but when I was, it was for religious reasons. I grew up in a religious community that was full of “sympathy” for gay people (of the “aww you poor damned soul, stop being gay” variety), but demanded complete social respect for its own beliefs (of the “refusal to fund my religion, and only my religion, with tax dollars is literally discrimination” variety). There’s something about that “be tolerant of others as long as those others are just like me” mindset that can be found in a lot of places (atheist communities are another). However, when your beliefs are preventing families from forming, there’s something wrong here.
After leaving my faith, it took a while to fully recover from my bias. It happened in phases.
“Wow, it’s alright that these people are gay.” “Wow, it’s alright for these people to get married.” “Wow, it’s alright for these people to raise kids.”
I anticipate that this thread will have LGBT supporters all up in arms with their witty slogans to hurl at religious/otherwise anti-gay people.
I am but a lowly redditor, but I’d like to offer some advice to people who think one-upmanship is the way to change minds: it’s not, so please don’t do that.
Have conversations. Show the people who hate you that you’re human, a dynamic being who just happens to be into sex with a certain gender/be supportive of non-hetero folks. Be polite. It’s infuriating to hear “you shouldn’t get married because groooooss.” I know. But know that we’re still on the right side of history and debates like this will be a thing of the past so, so soon.
I have a couple of thoughts on this. First, it really depends on how you define Anti-Gay, because while I have some opinions about homosexuality that are definitely contrary to the majority of society, I do not in any fashion consider myself anti-gay. I come from a Christian background, and my faith is a large part of my life today, so like most Christians, I consider homosexuality to be a sin. However, what I believe is that it’s not something makes someone any worse than any other person in the world. My beliefs tell me that we are all broken people who all do wrong things. I lie, the thief steals, and Walter White makes meth. My beliefs state that no one sin is any worse than another. To God, lying is just as bad as homosexuality. Therefore, to hate, condemn, shame, or otherwise drag someone down for being homosexual is saying that the sins I have committed are inconsequential. In this situation, I ignore what I have done and focus on what you have done in order to make myself feel better about what I’ve done. This is hypocrisy, and I choose not to partake of it.
On a slightly different, but related note, I also understand that morality is a grey shape, not always in black and white. Often, what I believe to be wrong is the same as what you believe to be wrong; e.g, murder, theft, rape, and so forth. However, I also understand that you and I will share grey zones. I believe homosexuality is wrong, you don’t. That’s fine. I respect that we have differences, and I believe those differences are a large part of what makes humanity incredibly beautiful, and thus ought to be deeply respected. This is what contributes to a pluralistic society. I understand we are different, I respect you for being different, and I humbly request that you respect me for being different for you. However, one of the hallmarks required for pluralism to function is that I don’t force you to believe what I believe, and you don’t force me to believe what you believe. We have a freedom of choice, and above all, I think that should be respected.
However, I think it is important for me to add the reason why I believe I’m not anti-gay. Jesus Christ was not known for hanging out with the people who went to church, paid their taxes, and were “holy.” He hung out with the prostitutes, the tax collectors, and the people that his society said were “dirty.” Why should I hate someone that has probably had a life made very difficult by their sexuality? For that matter, why should I hate anyone because they disagree with me? If anything, these are reasons for love; we’re different, and that’s AWESOME. So that’s what I believe I should do. Love others, because they are human.
TL;DR: I’m Not anti-gay, I choose to love all people (’cause we’re people), but still disagree with homosexuality.
I think that the gay community is going about their rights and integration movement the wrong way. In a perfect world, there shouldn’t be anything else attached to being homosexual except for attraction to the same sex. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with that, and I have absolutely no objection to that kind of thing. Personally, I’m not into it, but I’m not going to throw up and rage if two men start kissing. It’s just two people attracted to each other. Big fucking deal. However, people are packaging in the whole effeminate, colourful, flamboyant image in with homosexuality. If the gay rights activists really want to stop discrimination, they should stop advertising gay people as flamboyant and in-your-face. Therefore, stuff like gay pride parades and rainbows are kind of counter-productive. It makes the heterosexual majority think that they’re a different kind of person, when in truth, they’re not. When television and advertisements start using gay people as people, not symbols, then they’ll get somewhere.
Conservative Christian here, thought I’d weigh in on how we Christians feel. Yes, the Bible teaches that homosexuality is a sin. Yes, I believe this to be true. However, I am of the opinion, politically, that the Constitution (or more accurately, the Bill of Rights) creates a separation of church and state, and that because of this, the Bible teaching that something is wrong should not make it illegal. I firmly believe that gay couples should have the legal right to do whatever they please, so long as it doesn’t harm others (and it doesn’t, obviously). In other words, even the level-headed among us conservative Christian folk from the deep American South are able to separate our opinion on the morality of an action and our thoughts on whether the action should be legal. From a Christian standpoint, for anyone who is gay but also believes in God and sees it as sin, it has GOT to be the single most powerful temptation there is. As far a legality goes, though, do whatever you want. Thanks for reading. Please know I don’t hate gay people. I’m here to present to you how we Christians actually feel.
As a gay man, I absolutely hate the gay community.
For a large part of last year, I had a somewhat large (roughly 15 or so people) friendship group, who dubbed themselves ‘The gays group’. The group started off quite small and harmless, and was generally just used as a way of making excuses to have small fun gatherings with each other. Over time this group grew due to the more outspoken gay men and lesbians wanting more homosexuals to join the group. As a result, the ‘gatherings’ ended up being just one giant orgy, where all of the gay men eventually had slept with each other. I personally did not partake in any of these ‘activities’, and due to this was always told I was such a ‘bad gay’. For a long time I was berated to these comments. I was literally told, by the very community I was apart of, how to act, think, and do. I wanted to be apart of none of this, and did eventually leave this group and barely talk to any of the members involved. Not long after I did the group actually fell apart, because honestly how could something so vile sustain itself. Since then, all of those gay men, one of which was my best friend of 7 years, have moved on to the much larger gay scene, being the two local gay bars in my city. I myself have been to these gay bars, and it was evident that the group I was apart of was not very different to that of the actual gay community. I look at many of those involved in the gay community in my city, and I just think of the friends I once knew. They all end up being the exact same. They all have ‘relationships’ with one another, ones which are lucky to last a month, ones where they sleep around with other regardless of being in a relationship. Yet it doesn’t phase any of them at all. It’s all just so toxic. When I see this, I really don’t blame people for being anti-gay.
Now I know there are exceptions, like myself. Often I wish I weren’t gay. Not because I hate myself, I believe in myself too much for that, but because being straight would be just so much more easier. I eventually want to marry, I want kids and a house, I want to have a regular, boring future. At the current time it just doesn’t seem possible as nearly every gay person I meet is fully immersed into the gay scene. It’s just sickening. I am gay, but by the standards that have been set, am I really?
Every gay I’ve met thinks they’re classier and better than me.
15. It’s not normal
I would probably be one who popular media would describe as a bigot, homophobe, overall horrible person, etc. But, I don’t hate homosexuals, nor does the thought of homosexual acts particularly bother me, so I may not be fully qualified to participate in this thread, but here goes:
I do not believe that homosexuality is “normal”, and, I find the contemporary assertion that one should accept it as so to be ridiculous. All people have certain sexual proclivities, and, homosexuality just happens to be one of them. If one were to be attracted to a relative of theirs, and if this attraction was mutually felt, and they were to begin a sexual relationship with said relative, I would have no real issue with this (as long as they were both consenting adults). But, if you were to tell me that this is somehow “normal”, that I should accept it as such, and that people who were in incestuous relationships should be allowed to marry, have children, start throwing parades, etc etc, I would have a problem with that. It is not normal, everyone knows that it’s not, if you deny that it’s not, you are lying to yourself, and if you try to make me into a bad person for accepting the truth of the situation, I see you as a self deceiving, verbose, sanctimonious, fool, who needs to make yourself feel good (for what, I do not know)! And so, that is how I feel about homosexuality!
My dad is fine with gay people in general, but he’s typically against gay marriage because he doesn’t want a gay couple to force a church to marry them. I’m for gay marriage, but I very much agree with that. a church, or any other private institution that has the ability to perform marriages, has every right to not marry you. I don’t want a gay couple to force a catholic priest to marry them, or any other denomination. If a priest/Rabbi/Imam whatever is cool with it, so am I, and so should everyone else. But if they aren’t, you should respect that.
However, if you are a legal official, like a Judge, who sometimes perform marriages, you can suck it up. You don’t have the right to refuse. You are an extension of the people, acting on their behalf, and if the people vote for gay marriage to be allowed in your state/country, then you have to go with it whether you like it not.
Anyway, the not forcing churches to marry gay couples is fairly common, and I’m sympathetic to it, and I feel like any law that include gay marriage should probably spell that out.