Conversations With Dead People: A Medium’s Session With Nicole Brown Simpson And Ron Goldman
"Take a look at that, he’s saying. That is, down to the bottom of the barrel of how… we can be as human beings."
By 
M.J. Pack
After the whole country relived what can safely be called the biggest murder trial of its history, “The People VS O.J. Simpson” has been on many minds these days. It was certainly on mine as I followed the series faithfully, finally learning the intricacies and details of a case that occurred when I was only 9 years old. In this series, I have decided to trust my gut and my heart when it comes to choosing the subjects for our sessions, and there was no doubt I wanted our second session to be with Nicole Brown Simpson.
As always, Amy and I chat a bit before getting down to business. I set up my screen recording software, make sure my dog is sleeping so he won’t disturb us, and off we go.
Me: Okay! Whenever you’re ready.
Amy: So, um, in tuning into both of them — Nicole, to me, feels like she’s in a higher place, as far as — acceptance, and, um, angelic presence around her? I’m seeing that Ron has a more emotional body wrapped up in things.
Me: Okay.
Amy: All right.
Amy closes her eyes. When she “connects” with spirits it always appears the same; it almost looks as if she’s meditating. I suppose on a certain level, she is.
I wait patiently. Amy breathes deeply — it’s the only way I can tell we’re still online together, she’s so still. At last, her eyelids flutter and she says:
Amy: There. I feel them both, so…
Me: Okay.
Amy opens her eyes, looking almost dazed.
Amy: Um, ask a question.
Me: Okay. Um. I don’t wanna start too heavy but, um, let’s see… I guess we’ll start a little bit lighter and ask Nicole what she thinks of her friend’s book.
I hold up the copy of “Nicole Brown Simpson: The Private Diary of a Life Interrupted,” written by Faye Resnick, which had just arrived at my door that day.
Amy closes her eyes again.
Amy: There isn’t any… judgement towards it? But she wants to make clear and known, um, that her friendships in that lifetime, um, were very… she doesn’t wanna use the word ‘superficial’ but… um… were based on things that she believed was true friendship at that time? But… didn’t have much depth. To it.
Me: Okay.
Amy: Um. She’s saying that she doesn’t necessarily… feel… that the intentions behind that book were to defend her, get her story out, per se. Um. She’s saying “It is what it is” because of what ruled everyone’s, um, happiness and their egos in that circle.
Me: Uh huh.
Amy: So the intentions weren’t as pure as they are presented as.
I think we can all agree on that. Even if Faye Resnick had intended to tell Nicole’s story in a pure sense (which I doubt she was,) the story was definitely twisted at some point into something else. Most likely for fame and money.
Amy tries to explain how Nicole isn’t coming from a “three-dimensional human sense” when it comes to her feelings on the matter when my video and audio begin to jitter, pop. I ignore it until she says:
Amy: Is your camera doing weird things?
Me: (laughing) Yes, I’ve got audio pops.
Amy: (laughing) Yeah, okay. What she’s saying is that from where everyone was, in that lifetime, the ego-based intentions are what they are. She says, “Anybody should be able to understand that.”
We move on. I never like to overload Amy at the beginning of a session — the more violent or unpleasant a scenario with a spirit is, the more it affects her personally — so I try to softball one towards Ron, since he seemed so eager to speak.
Me: Okay. Um, all right, I guess we’ll ask Ronald one. Um. What was he doing at her house that night?
For those of you who don’t know, the official story is that Ron — a friend of Nicole’s and a waiter at restaurant Mezzaluna as he pursued an acting career — was returning a pair of glasses to Nicole that had been left behind that night after a dinner there to celebrate daughter Sydney’s dance recital. A phone call had been made saying the glasses were missing and Ron volunteered to return them.
Amy closes her eyes. A minute passes.
Amy: This is an interesting one. Which, I don’t even, I, I never got this until just now so this is — fascinating. He’s telling me, that, he was given a message. Not by her — in person, or speaking, even — was given a message for him to go there at a certain time. And, he is —
Amy closes her eyes again, concentrating hard.
Amy: — Saying to me that she was just as surprised to see him as he was surprised — to see her surprised. Like, she’s like, “What are you doing here?” And he’s like “You… told me to come here?”
She pauses, her fingers in the air as she jabs at important words, like ‘you’ and ‘come.’
Amy: I’m also getting from him — that, that’s basically all they got out.
She shakes her head and gives me a look that says ‘you know.’ I do.
Me: Before it… happened.
Amy nods.
Me: So I guess… he was given a message… had they been, and this is for either of them, had then been intimate or —
I’m barely done speaking when Amy interrupts me.
Amy: Intimate.
Me: Or were they just friends? Oh — oh, intimate?
Amy: I just literally saw a flash of them…
She makes a gesture with her fingers that describes what she saw.
Me: Goin’ at it?
Amy: The position and bodies and everything… just… yeah.
Me: I guess the question would be, then, uh… where did his — there is a reason out there as to why he was supposedly at her house. Um, that was not that they were intimate. I’m just wondering if he knows where that came from. Or why.
Amy: Uh, okay. One thing he wants to say is that, um — and I don’t know about this, but was there confusion on his sexuality?
Me: I’m not sure.
I frown. Amy closes her eyes again. As she starts to focus I do what I sometimes do during our sessions — minimize the Skype tab, pull up my browser, and do some research. You can hear my keyboard clicking away as I type something along the lines of “ron goldman bisexuality.”
Then something very strange happens.
Amy: I kind of get, or am hearing, bisexuality?
She goes on but instead we get… well… just listen for yourself.
I have been on many Skype calls. I know what it sounds like when the connection is slowed, interrupted, or fragmented. That is not what it sounds like.
Halfway through the garbled speech, I hear the word “fuck.” My face by the time Amy comes back says it all.
Amy: — is what I’m hearing.
Whatever she said had been entirely censored.
Me: Um. So I’m gonna have to show you that? Because… you… basically after you said ‘bisexuality’ it did something my computer has never done in my entire life.
We discuss the anomaly and Amy does a brief pendulum session where she consults a pendulum for a yes or no answer. She asks Ron if he she was wrong about his bisexuality, if she had heard wrong. She gets a yes, she’s wrong. She asks again if Ron was bisexual — and gets a hard no.
So that’s settled. She had heard wrong. Ron Goldman was not, in fact, bisexual. I go back to my research that I’d abandoned in the wake of the strange sounds and find that his sexuality was, in fact, speculated on in the media.
We go back to the alibi for the night of the murder.
Amy: So he’s telling me that that confusion arrived from — friends at where he worked. Uh, so he’s telling me that a message came in about going there, supposedly from her, that was… explained in a way that friends of his believed happened. And he said that he was not truthful with people about his… connection with her because of her fear, number one. And she asked him not to share, with people. And so… it comes from friends, specifically at work, that… he gave… reason as to his connection with her. So that he protected her.
I explain the Mezzaluna glasses excuse. Amy closes her eyes.
Amy: Yep. He’s saying that is an untruth, that that is a cover of… um… but he’s saying, actually, okay. So what he’s saying is that he received message at work to go see her. That she needed to talk to him, and it was important. And she didn’t wanna do it over telephone. He told people… because the message came in to work, and he didn’t specifically speak to her, he’s saying… he did not speak to her. So he told friends that the reason she was reaching out to him was because… she had left something. He was gonna return it.
So that clears that up. And we all know what Nicole’s fear was, right?
Amy: It was a woman’s voice. So there’s a woman who knows about this. Calling, posing as her [Nicole] so that he [Ron] would go there at a specific time.
I clarify that Ron doesn’t know who placed it. Amy confirms. Now it’s time to just go for it. There’s no other way to say it:
Me: So I guess, we’re fast tracking to… it was… I guess who… who committed the murder? (laughing) Just dive right in.
Amy closes her eyes for only a moment before opening them again. She looks deadly serious.
Amy: 100%, absolutely, no doubt. Absolutely O.J.
Me: O.J. And he did it himself?
Amy: Yep. I don’t see anybody else there. And… it was literally ninja-style. So, so much… craze. So much… and preparation. On O.J.’s part of… um… how to kill quickly. How to, um… it was something that was pre-planned.
Amy looks distressed. Usually when getting these messages her eyes are closed but now they’re darting back and forth at something I can’t see.
Amy: Okay. Let me stop that for a second. He’s… talking a lot.
She makes a talking motion with her hand and closes her eyes again.
Amy: He was killed first. I don’t know, can that be proven?
Me: I’m not sure. I can look.
Amy: Okay. He was killed first. She, right within seconds. And here is where it is interesting.
She clasps her hands over her heart and bows her head.
Amy: I’m not sure how that could be proven because literally it was just in… seconds. Yep.
Another long moment passes.
Amy: And how I’m seeing it — I don’t know if this could be, proven at all as well — I see her, if I’m standing, facing, I see her on the left, and him on the right —
The video and audio begin to jitter.
Amy: — and I’m trying to get a visual of where O.J. comes from. I feel — from what I’m seeing — O.J. comes from behind. Takes Ron’s neck, slits.
She pantomimes this, one arm in front of her as though she’s holding someone from behind. Amy pulls the other hand across an invisible neck.
Amy: Nicole is directly straight in front. And as he does that, he grabs her —
One hand still holding the imaginary knife, Amy uses her free hand to grab at an invisible head.
Amy: — like this. By the hair. That body drops and he takes his knife and does hers from the front —
She pantomimes this as well, then appears extremely upset, dropping the demonstration to shake her hands in front of her, the way a kid might do upon eating something particularly distasteful.
Amy: …Literally seconds. Guh.
She shakes her head, eyes closed. I think we have enough information for that part so I try to change course a little. I explain the layout of the condo and where the bodies were found, confirming Amy’s scenario. She asks where O.J. could’ve came from and I tell her about the infamous side path where the glove was found.
Amy: Did they know if they crawled or anything? They feel close.
Me: No, they just fell. Here, I can find the crime scene pictures.
Amy dabs at the corner of her eyes. It appears she’s teared up. Upon my mention of the crime scene photos:
Amy: Oh, yuck. They have those public?
Me: Uh, yeah. You can find almost anything like this online.
Amy: You can see their bodies? Their faces?
Oh boy, my history in morbid fascination comes through for once. I explain the origins of the photos and others that you can find online. Amy is visually disturbed and I feel a little guilty for having such knowledge.
I review the photos and explain what I see. Both throats were definitely slit. The position looks right. They’re very close, as Amy said.
I inform Amy, in regards to the “ninja style” and “killing quickly” that O.J. was required to take combat knife training for a pilot he was filming at the time titled “Frogmen.” Interestingly enough, he even filmed (and was trained for) a scene where he took a female from behind and threatened to slice her throat with a knife.
We move on.
Amy: The one thing that I want to say gets interesting — and I want to say it before I forget — was Ron was telling me that the reason he got targeted for this is… it was planned for Nicole, period. O.J. had made up in his mind that he was doing that. He was doing it that night. That whole, that whole thing was pre… thought-up.
Me: Mm-hm.
Amy: For HER. But… Ron is telling me that there is something that agitated O.J. to the point of… I’m feeling like, more flippant… feels so disrespected. That… he’s allowing me to see O.J. was like, “Hey motherfucker. You’re going too.” Off of something that happened, that O.J. got pissed about.
Me: That day?
Amy: Yes. Like literally, throwing him in the pot that day. Something… that… was the camel, the straw. Okay, so he’s telling me… okay.
Amy closes her eyes again.
Amy: All right, let me ask him to stop for a second. Let me connect with Nicole, because I want to ask her what he’s telling me right now.
A brief pause.
Amy: Okay. So, now I have both, um, he’s telling me that… Nicole was at a place in that time of her life that she was well aware of O.J.’s erratic, um… she sensed, and she knew. She tried, um, like in those days before, to… share with people? That she was… scared. Of him. In particular. Moreso than when… they were married, and when she shared with people things that would happen, um… in those last couple days, she was… she had told people, or was trying to reach out to people, in specific… she had discussed with Ron about O.J.’s temper, jealousy, rage, control issues. Um. Crazy eyes, he’s saying. Just this thing taking over that, um… she was literally scared of him. And he knew that. And she’s confirming with me that that is true, and that she had shared that with him. So he’s well aware of that… and she’s well aware of that… and he’s saying that O.J. became well aware of their connection. And… he’s telling me that he, O.J., put two and two together of their intimacy. And… Ron’s telling me that Ron was a very, um, loyal person who was not afraid to stand up… um… he would say what he thought and believed, he wouldn’t cower to… um… anyone, especially someone who is hurting someone or some injustice is being done. So he’s telling me that to tell me that he couldn’t hide his distaste? For… him [O.J.] and that somehow, he came face to face with him. And… this all is what got him on the list of… and again, I hear O.J., “Motherfucker, you wanna disrespect me like that? To my own FACE? I’m gonna… let you…” You know. He’s [Ron] very talkative. He’s talking a lot.
Me: He probably feels like, um — and they even mention this on the show, that like his family was very upset because they said, you know, “It’s like my son doesn’t even factor in, it’s the O.J. and Nicole show.” And when he did factor in it was like, “Ooo, they were fucking.”
Amy: He’s saying that that doesn’t bother him, just the injustice of him [O.J.] getting away with it.
Me: Okay.
Amy: That, um, and, and people not understanding the full… gamut of what happened. How it was set up. The reason why he was there in the first place. Of… and he wants to make sure it’s understood that, the connection between him and her was… more than just… hooking up. There was a true care, a friendship, a concern of how are you doing, are you okay, and she truly confided and trusted him, to tell him about what was going on, where she was at, and confide in him about what she had gone through and what she was going through. With O.J. So it wasn’t just “Meet me at 9 and let’s fuck and then you leave an hour later,” there actually was… a friendship connection there. That transcended just… hooking up.
I ask if there’s anything about a dog, since it was Nicole’s Akita that found their bodies. Amy describes a love and care Nicole has for a very well-trained, very intelligent dog, who obeys Nicole when O.J. isn’t around. She explains that “O.J. is the alpha, always.”
At this point, I need to go pick my husband up from work and Amy has her own errands to run. She says it’s actually a good spot for a break because after tuning in to the murder she’s feeling “pretty overwhelmed.” We agree to join up again later that evening so as not to lose the flow of energy.
We pick up again later in the evening. I am in the garage because my husband is home and he is a staunch skeptic to these sorts of things, so rather than listen to him grumble in the living room I perch my Macbook on the trunk of my car and show Amy the video where she’s interrupted by strange sounds.
Her face says it all. Her eyes go wide and her mouth opens.
Amy: Oooo!
Me: I can hear voices in it!
Amy: I hear a man!
We listen to it a few more times and we’re both blown away.
Amy: That is so crazy. What the hell is it saying?
Me: I don’t know! I’ve heard you stutter before online, but that… that was voices.
Amy: Towards the end, there are two to three words, I think if you broke it down you could hear what he’s trying to say.
I haven’t been able to decipher it quite yet so if anyone else does, please let me know. We move on.
Here’s where things get very serious.
I decided after our Marilyn session that I wanted each of our conversations to have some sort of message for the reader to take away, whether they believed in the paranormal or not. I wanted to share something with our readers that impacted their lives.
Having taken over a session that was initially meant for Nicole Brown Simpson, Ron Goldman delivers that message.
To honor his memory I have included here, in full, everything Amy said that was passed on by Ron. This was uninterrupted.
Amy: He’s giving me a list. So I’m going to do one, and so Ron, I would like for you to do one at a time instead of all of this all at once. Because I want to hear you clearly. Say it all.
Okay, so the first thing that he’s saying is, he wants it made clear, that there is so much… deception isn’t even the word because he’s saying that all of these people who are chatting their opinion and speculation, the quote-unquote friends… the, circus called the police department… the media… he wants it made clear that, there is barely a drop of truth in so much that has been said. And because so much has been said in speculation, two lives have gotten lost twice, he’s saying. [Amy lifts both hands with two fingers up and gestures with them.] They got lost twice. That’s what he’s doing to me right now, like this. [She gestures again.]
They were lost, him and her, physically, taken from their lives, and who they were as people was lost again. In everybody’s obsession. With their version of what the truth is.
Factual: he wants it known, O.J. Simpson killed him and Nicole. Period.
Factual: he wants it known, Nicole was a good person. He was a good person. They had hopes, they had dreams. He’s saying… that… in review of life, there was so much wrapped up in… the ego part of, the pursuit of… fame. Of acting. Being in that “It Crowd” where there’s partying and good times and, um, everything’s based on how nice your body is and how, you know, six-pack and all of this… in review, he understands the misconception of just making them into, um, stereotypes.
Factual: they were two people who were good people. And he’s saying that she was a good mother and loved her children. He’s saying that she wanted to make some changes and was seeing the detriments of choices from the past. He was excited about the future, he really felt that doors would open. And so he wants it made clear that they weren’t just… Barbie and Ken. Is what he’s saying.
Factual: he wants it made clear who killed him. Factual: he wants it made clear the type of people that they were. Factual: he wants to make clear, there weren’t many people who truly cared, except for family. His family, which he wants to get into in a second, and Nicole’s family.
He wants to say he’s sorry to his family, although he knows it’s not his fault for what happened… sorry for the pain that they went through. With losing him in that way. And he has great love for them all. And his… strength in, still, wanting justice… doesn’t have so much to do with him — it does, but the bulk of this feeling is, what his family has been through. And what it cost them. And the years it took from them. And the pain that they still feel. THAT is what makes him… this strong. To be able to come through.
He’s also talking about the human nature. That he wants to point out, that is… the lowest choice of what we can choose as humans, which is… ganging up is the wrong word. Mob mentality. The disgust at that… and I’m feeling emotions. [Amy begins to choke up.] Of people going through pain. And people’s lives being lost. And those who loved him having to suffer through that.
And the mob mentality of people… jumping on it. As if it’s entertainment. And a… circus… ride. Take a look at that, he’s saying. That is, down to the bottom of the barrel of how… we can be as human beings. And he wants that put out there.
This was real. Two people… children lost a mother, and in essence children lost a father. And parents lost a son, and parents lost a daughter. Siblings lost… And to make it into a spectacle? Is the worst of human nature.
And he’d like to say that the people involved in that have been able to evolve, all these years… but he can’t really say that. Because most of them have not.
But he hopes that… there are some. Who will learn from that.
Amy has spoken for over 10 minutes straight. She opens her eyes at last and wipes away tears. That was truly something to witness. I’m too afraid to speak in case it might break whatever connection she has.
Amy: I’m asking him now if he — if it matters to him if O.J. is, ever, obviously he can’t be convicted because that’s done. But… the justice part of it.
She wipes away more tears and listens.
Amy: He’s answering me that justice… has a funny way of… working itself out. In ways that, aren’t necessarily expected. And he has full confidence that justice… will be served in his lifetime. O.J.’s lifetime.
I ask if she’s aware of O.J.’s current situation. Amy mentions she heard something about his book, and that he had gotten in trouble for stealing something that used to belong to him. I suggest that his prison sentence for the sports memorabilia theft might be the justice Ron had mentioned.
Amy: I think there’s more justice to come. I think there’s more justice to come besides… that. Yeah, because the way that he presented that to me was a future that, um… I mean that’s justice, but…
Me: I mean, he’s up for parole next year, but —
Amy: I’m gonna go ahead and say there’s more to come. (sniffs)
Me: You doing okay?
Amy: Yeah. That was… (sighs) I actually feel he’s done. It feels a LOT lighter.
Me: Like he’s been waiting to get that off his chest.
Amy: Yeah. That was… that was tough. The emotion that he… put on me during that was, immense.
Me: Yeah. I mean, that’s, uh, 100% right because even now — with the interest in the case, the TV show, it’s at least being treated with a modicum of respect. And when it happened it really was just, like, I was doing research for this and they actually, um, they actually credit the O.J. Simpson trial with the birth of the Kardashians, the birth of reality TV, and the birth of the 24-hour news cycle because before that there was nothing like that.
Amy: He’s quite disgusted by that. (laughs)
Me: I bet. Because it wasn’t treated… nicely. It was treated like, “What’s goin’ on next with O.J. today?”
Amy: Like it’s a, like it’s a show.
Me: A soap opera.
Amy attempts to tune into Nicole, who has been content to take a backseat to Ron this session.
Amy: She’s here. She instantly said… she let him do the talking because he’s the better, (laughing) heartstring-puller.
She closes her eyes again.
Amy: She’s actually very much at peace. She’s very much let go of all of it. She’s telling me that she’s very much… um… active in, uh, being around her sister. Um. That she, often shows her… through… um. I’m trying to get her to show me what she’s talking about. Um. There’s things that she does with her sister that her sister is well aware of. Her sister’s gifted. And her sister is well aware, um, of when Nicole is there. And so they have a wonderful… relationship that way. And it’s something to do with the bathroom? I’m not sure what that has to do with… like, I see a vanity, with makeup products, and um, you know, stuff on the counter. So I don’t know if maybe she talks to her in the bathroom? But that was a flash.
Amy pauses for a moment.
Amy: And also, her, number one concern is for her children. And she works hard to send them… love and support as much as she can. Because they’re not… necessarily… as… balanced as they could be. And rightfully so with what they went through.
We discuss a few more aspects of the murder, including the fact that their children were in the condo when Nicole was killed. Amy seems pretty incensed at that fact as well as the fact that O.J. never asked how his ex-wife died when the police called.
But it would appear everything that needed to be said has been said. Nicole was pretty quiet until Ron got everything off his chest. I ask if there’s anything else that needs to be covered. Amy says no, it’s all out there and we have their blessing.
Wow. Well, that certainly was… a lot. It was a very heavy session to deal with and I guess I hadn’t expected anything different. The session was intended to be with Nicole and Ron sort of hijacked it but you know what? I’m glad he did.
The point that he hammered on the most is one I find very important. It touches on humanity and the idea of how sacred human life is. It doesn’t matter if something is interesting, or lurid, or juicy. If it involves the loss of human life… there’s a certain sacredness about that. I, myself, have been guilty of losing sight of what truly was at stake when it comes to true crime stories. I think to a certain extent we all have.
But that message extends even farther than just true crime. I think we can all forget about what it means to be human, what it can mean to not take into consideration the very humanity of other people. It can become very easy to flip off someone who cuts you off in traffic, to sigh at the person ahead of you who’s taking too long in the checkout lane, to curse at someone who irritates you in a minor way. It’s easy to tear down someone who’s not you. Mostly because you are you and you’re not that other person.
That may sound like some sort of circular psychobabble but consider that. Consider the idea that your loved one — your husband, brother, sister, friend — was murdered. And consider the idea that for months, years, they were the subject of what ultimately amounted to an amusement park ride.
In that same vein, imagine that the same loved one is the person being flipped off while driving. Sighed at during grocery shopping. Cursed at for whatever. I know it’s not an equal comparison but I feel that’s what Ron’s pointing to. It’s so easy to discount other people’s humanity that it’s almost as effortless as breathing.
I think, as well as bringing light to his and Nicole’s plight, that’s what he’s getting at. That’s what he wants made known.
So I’ll end the session with this. Please, remember, all the things that you experience and feel as a human… so do other humans. Everyone around you is human. The kid who gets your order wrong at McDonalds? Human. The jerk who bumps into you at the airport? Human. I could go on and on but I think it’s pretty clear, something that we all tend to forget is that all the people around us are just like us. We’re all human.
And I was going to sum this up with a big poetic paragraph about humanity but you know what? That doesn’t feel right. What feels right is this: treat people kindly.
Treat people kindly.
That’s all. 
