The Funny Thing About the “Slutwalk”

“You can look pretty, feminine, elegant, attractive–without stripping your appeal down to its basest, most physical level.” You're right on point. Sundress up!

this is insane

unless the sexually driven man in question is an animal or retarded i don't think a woman saying no repeatedly is really that “confusing” no matter what she's wearing

doesn't mean the slutwalk isn't ridiculous but w/e

luke slutwalker

Gutsy. I don't know if I'm allowed to say anything, not being a woman. But I enjoyed this article.

They are just playing hard to get, obviously. Ever heard of no means yes, yes means anal?

Sweet article.

One Supreme Court Justice once said ( on obscenity):
“I know it when I see it”
So therefore, according to you (legal scholar), the Supreme Court “can't define porn.”
Well done, slut

you wasted a lot of words on an argument here that is stemming out of misconstrued facts, and in no way related to the circumstance that led to the 'slut walk'.

the officer in question was giving a campus safety information session to a class of law students. at their school. in front of the dean and other officers.

http://www.globaltoronto.com/f…

Which is why I always wear my burka when going to the club.

Seriously? There are so many things wrong with this article.

I think the point is that rather than targeting someone who has been victimized and analyzing what SHE could have done to avoid being raped, the primary focus needs to be understanding why a man thinks that a revealing dress gives him any right to sexually assault her. Rape happens to people dressed conservatively as well, likely more often, than a girl in a mini skirt; hence cases involving children, the elderly, soccer moms, etc. – I was once followed while wearing jeans and a sweater, however it was my location (secluded, dark street) which made me a potential target. If one were to evaluate ways to AVOID rape, the dialogue should begin with understanding the impact of location and vulnerability. A man in khaki's and a button down shirt is probably just as likely to get shot in a bad neighborhood as the man who's dressed like a thug, but the issue isn't the clothing, it's the environment. It may be easier to disrespect a woman who dresses like a whore, but the man who thinks that it means he can penetrate her regardless of whether she wants it or not, clearly has an issue.

Evaluating how a rape victim was dressed (irrelevant) is just a mechanism in a rape case to try to lay blame upon the victim, rather than addressing the underlying social problems that likely contribute to a man reasoning that he could get away with unwanted intercourse.

Only question is… what constitutes “slutty”? I can look classy in that short dress but still receive catcalls. It's all about culture as well. If you dress up with a short skirt in Paris, you're asking for it. If you do it in Miami, it's perfectly acceptable. I don't like to hide my legs just because it might make a sick man want to rape me (who'd prob do it even if I weren't wearing that). I find it sad that you think you can't dress sexy anymore just because you feel uncomfortable. Say FUCK IT, wear what you want, and just make sure to be with others.
Other than that small controversy, I agree with what you're saying.

way to go, Camille Paglia….let's blame some more victims.
or better yet, let's wear burka, or simply hide inside walls

Even genuine, sex-for-money sluts don't deserve to be raped or assaulted. Blaming women for their assault is cruel, lame, and betrays a chilling lack of empathy, even if the woman in question was doing nude somersaults down main street.

Problem is still the patriarchy. While you have a society in which men are compelled to chase, and women compelled to say yes or no – and unempowered to say yes unless asked, then these situations will continue.

Women are indeed innocent in this situation, insomuch as society presents them with an impossible situation – given that they have so few ways to signal their interest in being propositioned – and dressing to show any thigh or cleavage can be interpreted in this way. And for the same reasons, men are also innocent. Well, obviously not the person harrassing once a clear indication of disinterest has been established, but the reasonable guys who hit on women with decency. What is needed is for women to feel empowered to take initiative for themselves, so men can say no and women can say yes.

You are conflating the cultural situation with morality and accountability. There are ways to somewhat avoid attention, and these are things we know we can do, but we should feel outraged that we have to. A gay man can stay in the closet and be fairly certain to avoid gay-bashing; but is this morally acceptable? I'll give you this one: it isn't.

We do what we can to get by, but that doesn't mean we should just shut up about it. I won't call you a woman hater because that kind of behaviour is counter-productive. I think you're comfy in your just world; good for you. I'll be with the women AND men demanding that a higher standard of responsibility be put on perpetrators (and btw, we should be demanding it, not asking pretty please). How about we stop letting predators and victimizers off so easily? If a women (or man) doesn't seem like she's into it, or seems confused, pass on that ass. If you are just horny, there's always someone WILLING.

Ok I love Thought Catalogue and I usually feel you are quite on point about a lot of things, but I vehemently disagree with this article. I for one will be supporting the Slut Walk in Vancouver.

I am merely a few years older than Ms.Fagan but even at 22 I had realized that without feminism, I wouldn't have been able to enjoy the choice to dress like a slut or sundress up if I wanted to. But while I embrace being a Feminist with a capital F, if Ms. Fagan wants to dismiss the effect of the multi-waves of feminism, that is her choice.

The big issue that “Slut-Walks” are trying to raise is that it isn't JUST when a woman dresses like a stereotypical “slut” or prostitute that she is harassed. So many women get a lot of unwanted advances just in their regular everyday clothes. If I wear a sundress around town does that mean I'm asking for the cat-calls that are elicited from douchebags in limos? When my friend is wearing jeans and a heavy winter coat is she asking for a guy to drive up at a bus stop and tell her he likes her boobs?

Women get attacked and raped in our cities, and not because they dress like sluts. They get raped because a sick person decided to rape them. And instead of teaching men that being aggressive is a shitty thing to do; we teach women to walk in fear in cities, carry their panic alarms and walk in groups. And I for one am kind of sick of living with that sort of fear.

At least you recognize that there's a lot of paradox happenin' with this this stuff, but then you proceed to kinda boil it down to a REALLY tired argument about women's personal reponsibility. I agree that a woman dressed provocatively will more likely find herself being advanced upon than a woman who isn't, but to pinpoint that dress as the “tipping point” – the actual DIFFERENCE between getting raped and not being raped – is ludicrous. That part, I'm sorry, has to be put on our rape culture, not women themselves. And if some sluts walkin' around in daylight does something to jar the rape culture, more power to them.

lol what

i'm sponsoring a “DTF” walk on my street outside my place. please contact me if you want to be involved and raise awareness 4 womyn's issues.

if you wrote/agree with this article you might need to sort some issues out

“unless the sexually driven man in question is an animal or retarded”
have you been inside of a club or bar recently ?
these descriptors seem to fit a number of patrons

You are normalizing rape and other violent culture as something to be expected and inevitable. It's the 21st century and no one should have to worry about getting attacked because of the way they dress, and even more importantly no one should be defending those attacks as inevitable. No means no, and claiming that the way someone dresses can be 'confusing' to a man is absolutely ridiculous. You are excusing the inexcusable by essentially saying 'She was asking for it.' This really kind of makes me sick.

Oh yeah, let's just break out the burkas.

We should be able to wear whatever the fuck we want, without having to deal with asshole, threatening behavior or other people victim blaming us. And your point is ridiculous; women are attacked and raped no matter what the hell they wear. I was in jeans and a t-shirt the night I got chased across a parking lot by a group of men.

Also, implying that a woman is somehow guilty if she wears a revealing outfit and is raped is DISGUSTING. I'm not surprised you're called out on being a woman-hating woman.

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.” CONFUSING? What part of NO, I don't want to fuck you is confusing, even if I'm sporting some impressive cleavage? My cleavage or a short skirt is not an invitation to rape me or assault me. No means no. ALWAYS. Jesus Christ, who the hell raised you? If you were a man expressing these sentiments to me, I'd be palming my taser right now, figuring out how to zap you in the balls and get away. Fast.

Is it just me or does it seem like misogyny is alive and well on ThoughtCatalog lately?

Although I do have to say, internet comment sections are usually derided for being inane, but there's been a lot of great responses to this and other articles on here.

I'm sorry, I have to say it: you have COMPLETELY missed the point. I understand you think it's good advice, but even though it may reflect your conception of reality, both you and that cop are horribly wrong. Here's the truth (if you care to educate yourself)

People aren't raped because they look like sluts. They're raped (usually) by people they know. Obviously, their outfits have no bearing on their sad fate.

Other times, people are raped because they are in the wrong place at the wrong time, and to this point your article touches on a few common sense points, like: standing tall, avoiding eye contact and walking briskly through dangerous areas. Even though you, as many women, instinctively understand this, you still argue that a woman can be in some way to blame for being raped, as if her rapist wouldn't have touched her had her skirt been 6 inches longer.

Do you really think that all men are inherently sexual predators, who finally cannot control themselves when they see a beautiful woman in a tight dress?

Or, maybe do you – like the woman at the protest – think that some people are rapists, and that their victims are just that, and NOT contributors to the crime perpetrated against them?

Women have come a long way in Canada, but this article proves to me we haven't come far enough.

w/r/t the chappelle/cop thing you realize what context is right

this shit is mind boggling

This is a very well-written and interesting article, but I am left with a few questions. First: in a multiethnic, multinational, and just generally diverse culture, how can anyone really draw a hard-and-fast line on where the “basest, most physical level” begins and ends? When I was doing research in central Africa, I could wear a tiny tank top without attracting a single wayward glance, but a pencil skirt (like the kind I'd wear to an office in the US) would have earned me a barrage of comments and dirty looks. So I know we like to think that “we know it when we see it” in the US, but the American “we” is a pretty big umbrella, right? It all depends a lot on context: city, neighborhood, community, etc. It's complicated.

Now, look, I'm not totally PC-damaged. I understand that wearing spandex shorts with fishnets falls way below the aforementioned base level. But I also understand that a pair of D-cups in a tee shirt give off a very different impression than a pair of A-cups in the same getup. Does this mean that women with large breasts are beholden to different rules than women without them? Sometimes wearing something that even offers the vaguest outline of dangerous curves garners all sorts of unwanted attention. And I know that I'm not exactly looking for trub when I go for a jog in a wife-beater–LA can just get damn hot in March. I don't think I should have to suffer because I was blessed with an ample rack, and, similarly, I don't think that having big knockers should doom a girl to accidental slutdom if she feels like wearing less than a loose-fitting sweatshirt.

Lastly, I wonder if there isn't some middle ground between the rhetoric of individual responsibility and the rhetoric of victimhood. No, women probably shouldn't wear a miniskirt into a dark alley, but you know what's an even bigger no-no? Thinking that a certain dress code constitutes an excuse for bad behavior. So instead of focusing on the fickle, narrow line between Lady and Tramp, wondering what the hell that woman was thinking when she wore than skirt down that alley, our time and energy might be better spent wondering what the hell the cat-caller, aggressor, or rapist was thinking when they thought it was okay to use another person's outfit as an excuse for their own shitty behavior.

#1 Other than unwanted male attention are you a survivor? Think harder.
#2 This write up sincerely makes me wonder about the future of our country.
#3 Note: Dudes are all over this.
#4 “I’ve never understood feminism.” Hey, uh, your privilege is showing.

Feel exactly the same, as a male i feel so disempowered, by all these angry females, that this article has created. I WANT A VOICE!

the hell

“Now, look, I'm not totally PC-damaged. I understand that wearing spandex shorts with fishnets falls way below the aforementioned base level. “

agreed feel free to rape that cunt

this entire article is 100% better if you read it in the voice of andy rooney

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.”

Um, no. It shouldn't be confusing at all. Dressing in a “slutty” way is NOT an indication that a woman wants to have sex, like, at all. The words that come out of her mouth? Those are what matters.

I basically disagree with this entire article since it's completely rape-apologistic and victim-blamey.

hahaha

A woman who dresses provocatively is doing so to feel good about herself, to get attention, or both; but in no way does that mean she wants to have sex with anyone she encounters. Oh, she deserved it? Tell that to her face as the tears are streaming down her face and he's forcing himself on her. “Sorry, hun, you probably should have covered up that cleavage. Better luck next time.”

I am horribly disappointed by this article. I have thoroughly enjoyed Thought Catalog up until this point, but this is ridiculous.

Also: http://jezebel.com/#!5605653/w…

yeah this article is fucking stupid but not jezebel please

girl, reading this post broke my heart. please… take a look at this image, and then maybe educate yourself.

http://www.shamelessmag.com/bl…

Aren't humans animals and driven by an underlying base desire to procreate with the most suitable mate? When females slut-it-up they're only promoting this base need and desire. It is indeed unfortunate that there are such aggressive (understatement) males that pursue the courtship so fervently, but a purposefully set voluptuous bosom is no defence against this. Doesn't mean dressing with sex appeal as the main intent isn't ridiculous, but whatever…

I like women with no clothing. But, if clothing is indeed needed, whatever makes her comfortable is the best option.

Dave Chappelle said women should expect to be HIT ON if they dress provocatively, not that they shouldn't be surprised if they get date raped. But hey since you like quoting comedians so much, here's another one for you courtesy of Denis Leary:

“You're twenty two years old and you don't know shit about shit. I could fill a million assholes with the information you don't fuckin know. I could launch a nuclear strike through one of your ears and it'd come out clean the other side, you fuckin' idiot.”

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.”

Um, no. It shouldn't be confusing at all. Dressing in a “slutty” way is NOT an indication that a woman wants to have sex, like, at all. The words that come out of her mouth? Those are what matters.

I basically disagree with this entire article since it's completely rape-apologistic and victim-blamey.

Also: http://jezebel.com/#!5608138/w…

“aren't humans animals” is always a great way to start a dipshit argument about why people shouldn't have rules/morals/standards

also i tried to make sense of half the sentences in that post but gave up so you could be right who knows

disgusting article

You know why people call you a woman-hating woman? Because of things like this. You might be disguising it as a tract about common sense, but this is victim-blaming misogyny at its best. It's also insulting to men to assume that they're so controlled by sexual urges that they can't control themselves around an attractive woman. Rape is about power, not looks; no one deserves to be raped or is responsible for their rape, regardless of how they are dressed.

This is disgusting and you should be ashamed of yourself.

I hope that writing this article helped you sort out all your thoughts and feelings, however damaging they may be.

Only responding to the “unless the sexually driven man in question is an animal…” in yours, dear.

P.S. Are you guys related?
http://jezebel.com/#!5788765/c…

This sounds like it was written by a very naive high school student for her school paper. The point of this protest was not just to acknowledge women being harassed for wearing “slut”-like clothing, but being harassed just for being women, regardless of what they're wearing. I am a seventeen year old girl who has warranted unwanted attention on the street while wearing a knee length PARKA. But I guess I should blame myself!

You've lost a reader, Thought Catalog.

omg problem solved. I would much rather be reduced by strangers to my prettiness than my sluttiness! thanks

we're not just females gettin' angry brah.

you should also talk to some angry females sometime, it will stop seeming so irrational to you.

i love this.

you're smart.

thank you.

“Evaluating how a rape victim was dressed (irrelevant) is just a mechanism in a rape case to try to lay blame upon the victim,”

perhaps some scientific research could be done to justify this argument in court. maybe we can sample some rape victims along with non-rape victims. we can generate a ratio of body surface area which is covered by clothing to that which is uncovered – the nakedness ratio.

then, we can take the measurements of both rape and non-rape victims, measure the size of the clothing physically (because the size label is somewhat subjective and changes over time), and create what i would call – the spandex ratio.

I believe these two ratios encompass all of what visually contribute to the sexual stimulation of heterosexual/bisexual men, although some guys may find more clothing sexually stimulating, but its kind of hard to have sex with a woman while she's wearing bluejeans.

Umm… human beings indeed fall under kingdom animalia. Oh Dear +1 tbh

Let me voice an opinion which has been, until now, absent. I am a gay man. When I go out to a club or a bar sometimes I will want attention. In order to glean that attention I dress in a more provocative manner than usual. I am fully aware of the pitfalls of such attention. There is increased physical attraction and, more often than not, from men that I don't really care for once they open their mouths. Sometimes the results are caustic, awkward, often painful denials of men's affection that can possibly lead to them getting upset, making poor decisions, and even god-forbid the possibility of rape (yes people, gays are victims of rape too). I understand the risk I take. I also don't gloss over the fact that the risk is partially due to my decision to dress that way. Why would I ever dress that way and not acknowledge the risk? That's the very definition of delusion. And let's face it ladies, when it comes to men, there is risk. Now, please keep in mind, my particular style of dress does not CAUSE rape, just as insulting someone does not cause them to hit you. Causation is on the part of the person taking action, so sayeth our laws. Victims of rape are just that. Victims. And they should be supported, loved, and justified by our court system to the fullest extent of the law. But what I hear several of you saying is a denial of an age old truth. That the way you dress actually affects peoples behavior towards you, both bad and good. Dressing to excite men is fun, I should know, and it should be without consequence. But we live in the real world. Let me put it another way: dressing to excite men does mean you'll become the victim of sexual assault, it just means you're ignorant if you don't recognize that you may get results you weren't ready for.

Honestly, this was the most insulting article I've read on Thought Catalog. I don't know how you can blame a woman for being raped when she wears “slutty” clothes. You are just enhancing man made stereotypes that were made many years ago.

You should read this article.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011…

1. The term “slutty” is subjective and varies depending on location, person, time of day, etc.
2. With that said, how would you feel if you went to a party wearing a strapless dress and heels, got raped, and had your rapist and everyone around you say that you deserved it because you weren't wearing pants/sleeves/flats/etc?
To say that women are being irresponsible because of their clothing and therefore, are asking to be victimized is really disgusting and ignorant of you, and I'm ashamed that as a 22 year old, you aren't mature enough to realize that. Grow up, educate yourself, expand your horizons, and do us all a favor and stop writing bullshit articles for Thought Catalog.

no.

Excellent.

Misandrists flooding the comments imho

yep, this is fucking awful. thanks for this. I really appreciate that yet another woman believes that others have the right to treat us with disrespect or violence if we don't want to conform to a vague, Puritan ideal of appropriate clothing. oh, and that enjoying looking sexy means that we want to get fucked, not that we might enjoy looking sexy for ourselves. thanks.

unwanted sexual advances are not rape. unwanted advances can be overcome with a rejection. rape can't.
And if you went out dressed like a “slut”, as you admit you sometimes do, and were raped, I am pretty sure your reaction wouldn't be, “well, aw, shucks, I guess I was askin' for it!” And the difference between what Dave Chapelle said and that cop said is the law, and, you know, compassion and morality and respect for sexual autonomy. If you dress like a slut, yeah, you will probably have people proposition you for sex. Maybe you'll say “hell yeah! let's go!” or maybe you're say, “hell no! leave me alone, you're ugly as shit.” But all of that has NOTHING to do with rape. The person who should be accountable for rape? The fucking rapist!
Not to mention that rape happens to women REGARDLESS of what they where. In fact, 80% of rapes are committed by someone the victim (survivor) knew! Clothing has nothing to do with why a rape victim was raped. Do some reading. Please, please, educate yourself before you run your mouth.
Also, how disparaging is what you are saying to men?? They are so crazed by the sight of a woman's flesh that they they just HAVE to rape her? They're like wild, rabid, violent animals by nature? Give me a fucking break.

she isn't blaming, she's saying women should have common sense in order to reduce their danger of being raped.

LEARN TO READ PEOPLE GAHHH

NO YOU

Victim-blaming bullshit. I can see why your readers call you a woman-hating woman: because you are.

I'm a high school senior and I write for the paper but I would NEVER write this kind of misogynist, immature trash. Gabby, you're totally correct in stating that people (especially women and others who don't fit into the rigid cisgender male archetype, I'd like to add) will be harassed no matter what they wear or look like. You could dress like a prostitute/slut (implying that there's something inherently wrong with either is also misogynist, Chelsea), a nun, a bundled up Inuit, a scuba diver, etc. and you would still be harassed by anyone trying to establish their power and superiority over you. This has absolutely nothing to do with men reacting to and being tempted by revealing evening wear, and the idea that rape is about sexual attraction or the sexual deviance of women is incredibly misguided and Puritan.

“you still argue that a woman can be in some way to blame for being raped”

no. she is saying that women can take common sense steps (like not dressing like a slut) to avoid this

It's nice to see that many here are discussing the social parameters of rape and are understanding that the victim in that situation has very little, if at all, agency to prevent an assault.

With that being said, are we willing to extend that point of view to other individuals who may have little agency to help their situation. The person who deals drugs because they feel that they have no other choice; the person who heads back to jail because of the stigma attached to them of being an ex-con; the suicide bomber who has had his country invaded.

Are we willing to accept that those individuals are victims and are also working within the social parameters of their given situations?

Oh fuck you

nope. definitely common sense.

Setting aside the issue of victim blaming, you incorrectly assume that women who dress like “sluts” are more likely to be sexually assaulted. If you have any statistics that prove this, I'd love to see them. According to Utah State University <http: myths_facts.pdf=”" pdf=”" saavi=”" http://www.usu.edu=“”> most convicted rapists don't even remember what their victim was wearing, and a study cited by Psychology Today <http: 200812=”" articles=”" marked-mayhem?page=”2″ http://www.psychologytoday.com=“”> found that rapists were more likely to target women who looked submissive and unable to fight back – who often ended up being women in very conservative clothing.

I'll concede that provocatively dressed women probably encounter more catcalls and sexual advances (although practically every woman I know has a story about being catcalled while wearing a parka and sweat pants) but they're no more likely to be raped.

Rape isn't the result of being so overcome with lust that you must have sex with the person you're lusting after right then; it's a crime of power and violence that has little to do with actual sexual attraction.</http:></http:>

ps she isn't saying that the victim “deserved” it, she is saying that there are things one can do to lessen one's chances.

NO YOU

P.P.S. You don't understand the power structure of rape if you think dressing modestly will lessen one's chances.

the drug thing is a grey area but otherwise uh no

rape victims aren't affecting others' lives

where

You're really good at sarcasm.

Thank you.

Wow. This actually made sense. Thank you for breaking through the throngs of ignoramuses and shining an intelligent light on this. And you did so without calling anyone a barbaric name! You, dear Anonymous, made a good argument and have slightly changed my mind. Something that 74 posts stating “this is bullshit!” failed to do.

no shit bro we're also capable of higher levels of cognition than every other species what's your point

Well, I was wearing BDU's when I was raped. Not exactly figure-hugging or cleavage-enhancing. I, also, just have to add that whoever said there was a lot of misandry in these comments has a weird definition of misandry. Unless all men are rapists, I don't think anyone is being misandric.

in my opinion, rapists are generally to be blamed for rape.

haha acually i was being serious.

something may be terribly awful and uncomfortable to talk about (such as rape), but that doesn't mean that we should all jump to the most politically correct conclusion. women should NEVER be BLAMED, or course. we can all agree to that.

but, i would hope, if we are rational, that we can agree that women can take steps to lessen the danger of being raped. read what she is actually saying instead of posting knee-jerk comments, everyone. she never once said that women who dress sluttily deserve to be raped. she said that they can exercise common sense to reduce the danger of being raped/assaulted.

no one at this point in our culture should have to spell it out, but since it looks like feminism is basically dead: the 'logic' used in this article is the same as that used by fundamentalist/patriachal/oppressive cultures for eons, eve & her apple, birkas, stoning, ad nauseum. The point that sailed so far above this naive author's head is that we should ALL strive to live in a society where we can feel comfortable dressing as 'slutty' as we want, there is nothing wrong with enciting desire in the opposite sex, we should not feel that by wanting to encite desire, we are asking to be violated, and that we should not TOLERATE violations, as a society. Rape is about power and control, not passion. The schema that this article espouses, that people are too animalistic to treat each other's boundaries with respect and that societal norms and personal habits should essentially be shaped to accomodate the pitfalls of our darker natures, is cynical, tired and profoundly damaging in ways that have been proven again and again.

srsly 'thought' catalog, i know the tigermom/trolling approach is good for hits & you can later claim to 'at least have stirred debate' but is this really responsible? this girl is like 22, probably wrote this when she was stoned & if she ever grows up & learns to use her brain, unfortunately 'the internet is forevor' :( #dark

Not sure if I COMPLETELY agree with this, but definitely a valid point.

Who dresses like a “slut” for themselves anyway? Last time I checked a g-string, stilettos, and a halter mini dress isn't the most practical or comfortable thing to wear out on a Friday night.

It's nice to see marginalized men still hold up the patriarchy that so badly serves them in so many ways. I'm going to guess why you think there's risk inherent when dealing with men: you've seen male brutality, abuse, sexual assault, and dominance in your life and you cannot leave a pedestrian Just-World Theory mindset. In your eyes, men are violent because they've always been violent; therefore, we should not blame them. I hope you one day learn that that makes absolutely no logical sense and that those who rape deserve full responsibility for the rape.

I am so glad you found this study. I forgot where I had read it. But…uh the html there is a little confusing. Do you have the url?

i feel sick after reading this.
i really love thought catalog but this shit is disgusting. like a lot of people have already said, it's offensive to both women and men (who you make out to be monsters who are 100% not in control of their own sexuality).
blaming the victim for being raped under the guise of discussing “risk assessment” (which is such clinical, cold language, i'm kind of wondering if you might be a sociopath) is totally not cool.
whenever a woman says she doesn't “understand” feminism, you know exactly what place she is coming from.
to reiterate, can't believe this shit even got published. eugh. gonna go vomit now.

The premise of this argument is that individuals have very little agency to what other individuals do upon them.

Given that point of view, could it not be easily argued that a person who is in the situations I described also take the position that things have been 'acted upon them' by social forces and their reactions to it (bombing, drugs, committing some random crime) are only a “effect” of those social forces.

If we are arguing that social is dominant here why can't we apply to that to the scenarios I put out.

Simply put, where does one agency lay?

“Who dresses like a 'slut' for themselves anyway?”

yes. thank you so much for this.

No, she's saying that people changing their behavior to accomodate that of rapists/criminals IS somehow 'common sense' …ie, that somehow as a society we should accept that, instead of protesting it/trying to change the societal norm towards something more positive

And wherein did I say that rapists didn't deserve full responsibility? Read it again darling. Also, go ahead an unlock your doors, leave your wallet in a bar, leave your car running in a bad neighborhood, and post your social security number on your blog. Don't worry, you won't be held responsible for the crimes committed. You'll be a bonafide a 100% victim. Sleep tight.

“we should not feel that by wanting to entice desire, we are asking to be violated”

not asking, but certainly raising the chance of it happening. sure, this fact is unacceptable, but it's still a fact at this point in time.

I'll put it simply:
Dudes just needa realize that dressing like a “slut” is just a trap. She's not really that down to get-down, it's a trick, a disguise to mess with you. Welcome to America. Now enjoy the view and don't be a dick about it.

I dress like a slut for myself. I'm proud to look sexy and love seeing myself as such. If you can't wrap your head around that, maybe you should take some time to know and accept your body.

“And while that does not give him the right to violate her, it also cannot be claimed that women are entirely innocent in this situation.”

hmmmmm. I don't mean to argue over semantics, but claiming someone is not entirely innocent is very similar to asserting they are in some way to be blamed.

I've got this feeling that both the author and the editor are burdened with the belief that because they got a woman to write this, it somehow validates it and prevents it from coming off as idiotic and dangerously backward. It doesn't. Congratulations, you are both mired in the archaic, hateful culture in which you were raised.

The point, ultimately, is that rape is the rapist's fault. The end. There are no excuses for murders – being that murder is very well defined and should be understood by anyone of accepted literate ages in the United States of America – and there are no excuses for rape, something that sadly, men and women seem to need constant help defining.

It does not matter what someone dresses like, where they walked to or home from, how the weather was, whether it was a Tuesday (big rape day, let me tell you); if either party says 'whoa, stop it.' or is prevented from saying anything by a roughly applied hand or drug, and sex happens? The non-restrained, not-listening party is now raping the other. The end.

'I really liked how it looked' is not an acceptable reason to steal a car. 'It was parked in a bad neighborhood' will not get you acquitted. 'But, your honor, we were both a little drunk and it was asking for it…' is not a defense that will be entered for you by your defense attorney when you are arrested behind the wheel.

These are comical, easy to follow descriptions of what everyone understands – how it becomes more difficult to follow, or why the above article, written by a mouth-breathing dullard who cannot see out of their own badly wounded misconceptions on right and wrong, was considered a 'reasonable opinion' is lost on me, it really is.

Let's review: when you rape someone, it's your fault. You did it. You cannot be coerced into rape. Not because they have on a hot shirt. Not because it is Tuesday. Not because you 'really wanted to and thought they wanted it, too'. It's 2011. This shouldn't be a discussion.

i agree completely with this. this is what she is trying to say – not that women deserve what they get for dressing slutty or should be blamed for their rape.

OR dudes just need to realize that women do not and should not dress for men's enjoyment/confusion/what-have-you.

Yes, but I agree with Rosemy. Dressing conservatively may not even be effective, because most of the time it has nothing to do with being chosen as a victim. Everyone is assuming that a slutty attire makes a woman more susceptible to rape, but what are we basing this off of? Intuition?

I think Rosemy is right about rapists being inherently prone to raping. The grand majority of men will not force a woman into sex, no matter how much their animal instincts are telling them to do otherwise.

And yes, women should always avoid being in dangerous places, but I think in most cases if a rapist sees a potential victim alone at night, the only thing that would stop them would be if they confused the woman for a man.

Yes! I like this & I do agree. But I feel like though we do live in the 'real world', society is capable of change….protests only do so much but every action adds up. I really feel like the answer is everyone feeling MORE comfortable with being a slut! own it! and don't tolerate rape. It's so damaging when someone in authority…the fucking police…basically blames victims like that.

no it could not be easily argued that someone who commits a crime because of the stigma of having already committed another crime is equivalent to being raped are you insane

hahaha i love you. you've said all i wanted to say and more.

Yeah, I'm unsubscribing from your feed now. I don't need to read a website that promotes the idea that rape victims are to blame for their assault, not to mention the idea that men are mindless sex-fiends who can't stop themselves from raping women they find sexy. It's insulting and dangerous.

well yes, i modify my behavior by not walking alone in dark alleyways at night. this IS common sense, surely? this is the real world. just because we don't want it to be a certain way doesn't magically instantly change it.

in the same way, a simple modification of dress is something that is a reasonable modification of behavior, because the world is dangerous and there are easy, no-brainer things we can do to protect ourselves more.

And I'm saying that there is no possible way to lessen your chances of being raped, barring yet-to-be-invented technology that surrounds a potential victim in an impenetrable bubble when a potential rapist enters the radar.

I would hope, if we are rational, that we both understand that most of the time, the victim knows the attacker beforehand. Some random dude in a bar is statistically less dangerous than a family member.

“The More You Know.”

exactly! but don't you think that's fucked up? what might a person, or a society do to try & change that kind of attitude? '#idontgetfeminism' '#whyaretheyprotestinganyways'

Totally missing the point imho. Doubt you'll ever get there tbh

way to completely misread the entire article and post a knee-jerk response without comprehending what she said.

but this article is clearly talking about rapes that occur in situations where the victim does not know the attacker. so yours is a moot point.

this is the worst reply to any comment in history of replies

I dunno 'bout that. I dress for my own enjoyment, and if other people dig it- I'm flattered.
Just because you say they do not and should not doesn't mean that it's not a reason many do it.

No it is not equivalent in the act and you are missing the point…

I am willing to bet that the same people here that are showing their disgust with this post (as they should; it was very poorly written) are the same people that stick their nose up, wag their finger and poo poo at other types of deviance. Without once thinking for one second, that there are reasons why individuals are in the position that they are in. So like I said, it is interesting to see so many people 'getting religion', so to speak, about how social factors are to blame when it comes to sexual assault (of which, I agree with by the way).

Let me put it another way for you, if I as a black man, go into a KKK rally and actively argue with the individuals there. I then get assaulted. Shouldn't I as human being be respected to have no one assault me because I disagree with their point of view or much less because they perceive me to be lower than them as a human being?

Of course!

But, if I ever find myself in that scenario do you think the first thing that people will say is that he has the right to voice his opinion the way he wants (as long as it doesn't harm anyone else)?

Or….

Will people ask, “what in the hell were you doing at a KKK rally” first and foremost?

As a society we have some serious contradictions within our culture.
I find it interesting is all.

How self-aware. Bravo.

anon you're an idiot dude. and stop liking your own posts

While reading through this article fairly thoroughly, all I heard was:

“Blah blah I'm a rape apologists blah blah hey you tramps deserved your sexual harassment AMIRITE?”

If I wear a short pencil skirt I'm more likely to be hit on than if I wear jeans and a long sleeve shirt, I get that.
However, wearing a pencil skirt doesn't raise my chances of being sexually assaulted.
I was, in fact, wearing long sleeves and jeans when I was sexually assaulted.

Excellent. Well said.

yeah the difference is that the kkk is a fringe hate group that exclusively exists to act hostile toward minorities. the equivalent to your point is a woman walking into a cell full of convicted rapists and saying “i dare you not to fuck me.”

“Some people get raped, and it's unacceptable, but it happens so…meh.” That's what I'm getting from you.

What the actual fuck. When something wrong is happening, you don't say “well, that's the way it is. Sucks, but that's life.” Instead you do something brave and try and change the world around you to make it a BETTER PLACE like all the Slut Walkers – as opposed to this author, who is trying to reinforce the status quo and teach women that if they're raped, it's they're own fault.

Right where you tried to compare your choice to dress provocatively to the larger issue. You implied that since you dress to fuck when you go clubbing, everyone should therefore accept the responsibility of dressing this way (even though rape has absolutely nothing to do with manner of dress, “darling”).

Also, go ahead and pretend everyone in the world is out to get you and that *I'm* the naive one in this conversation. I live in the most statistically violent metropolitan area in my state and go to school in the veritable ghetto. Not once have I been jumped, and I actually did have my wallet returned to me when I lost it.

But you know what? None of that matters because your basic premise makes absolutely no sense. You're operating under the notion that becoming a rape victim is akin to flaunting one's social security number and that just shows your ignorance and inability to leave the Just-World.

then you didn't read thoroughly.

thank you! that's exactly what i read too. fuck people who think like this Chelsea person. they're the reason women continue to be victimized.

“I dress for my own enjoyment, and if other people dig it- I'm flattered. ” You say this as if I think this is wrong. This is actually how I feel about my clothing/makeup/hygiene.

However, my issue with your comment was the implication that women play a game when they choose an outfit, and framing it as a warning to dudes (no dudes I know need to be warned or even think like that in the first place). Existing in society is no game. There are no tricks, especially when it comes to sexuality.

You are still focused on the act which as I said is not equivalent when you should be looking the things leading up to the act and the reaction after…

But you are entitled to your opinion….

YES. This.

nah, i'll continue to do so. cuz i like what i'm posting.

also, i'm a female. OOOOH controversial

“Women should avoid dressing like sluts in order to not be victimized.”

wtf

Women should be able to wear whatever the fuck they want without fear of being verbally abused or sexually assaulted. Saying 'Oh, she was just asking for it' because she was wearing 'slutty clothes' is completely unjustifiable because I'm ~pretty~ sure that no one would ever ask to be assaulted.

In fact, I wish I could have attended the SlutWalk! Sounds empowering.

Guys- if you feel you don't have a voice, then you are mistaken. You absolutely have the ability to change negative perspectives regarding women and set a positive example. Feminisim is not about despising men, and standing up for women's rights is not 'unmanly.'

yes but Chelsea, you are also saying “I don't understand feminism”, and you are couching the article in sort of mocking of a protest in which people are actually trying to make a difference in this kind of cultural mindset–a mindset so blatantly exposed by the police official. When someone who is supposed to be PROTECTING people says 'women should avoid dressing like sluts' he is basically laying some responsibility for their victimization on them. When you say ' “They are being, to some degree, irresponsible”, so are you. They bear NO responsibility. And the only way we can change things as a society is to be vocal about it, much the way gay rights were won through. By saying 'this is the way things just are' you are perpetuating that reality.

Wow! You're immune to crime! I'm genuinely impressed. Put on those 4 inchers, hike up that skirt and feel comfortable knowing bad things won't ever happen to you.

all your posts are just drawing parallels between things that aren't remotely equivalent. i don't get what other point you're claiming to have. that a lot of people commit crimes because of societal pressure is kind of a given and i'm not sure what that has to do with rape victims.

the fuck?

everything in society is a game.

This is embarrassing. I feel secondhand embarrassment for you, because you clearly aren't embarrassed enough.

Females can be misogynists. Ooooh controversial! (Except not controversial at all because it's perfectly understandable that people of all genders have the potential to be total assholes.)

OOOOH, you're the writer of this article logged in anonymously. Controversial.

nah, honestly i'm not. i mean i doubt you'll believe me, but i'm being totally honest and self-deprecating when i say that i can't write as well as she can.

Oh I can tell you're female..You're one of those females who take comfort in thinking that you will never get raped as long as you don't dress a certain way, and now you're getting distressed over the suggestion that clothes have zero to do with rape because it means you're just as vulnerable to rape as the rest of us sluts. I've met plenty of women and girls like you, and unfortunately it takes someone close to you, or you yourself, getting sexually assaulted before you realize the truth.

Wow! You're incapable of understanding things! Since you've proven yourself to be opposed to any sort of reasoned discourse, I feel good about calling you a fucking douchebag. Thanks again for propping up the patriarchy and its beloved slut-shaming! You're really doing… well… NO ONE favors.

P.S. Terrible things have happened to me and they were never perpetrated by a creep in an alleyway or a drunk guy at a bar. Rather, they have all been carried out by family members, and I was never wearing heels or a skirt. Asshole.

It is NEVER the victim's fault. Goddamn this is basic junior-high level health class shit.

ThoughCatalog, If you wanna provoke a shitstorm, just have Tao write about his dick. Okay?

He knows what he's talking about. He's a professor.

you dumb piece of shit rape apologist. you are seriously making the comparison between a dave chapelle skit about women dressing scantily getting approached at a club between a man in a position of legal authority saying that women who dress “like sluts” are going to get raped.

do you really think someone was going to be like “oh, well i wasn't planning on raping anyone, but now that you dressed so sexually…”? no. that shouldn't even be a question. i mean its not like people who aren't supermodels dressed for the club ever get raped. its not like theres not well known statistics about victims of rape that are way more well correlated. its not like its blaming the victim and ignoring the real causes of rape (and probably lots of crime and misogynistic shit in general!)

let me put it simply: rape isn't ever exactly about the sexual gratification. its about power. i thought this was pretty commonly known, but whatever.

the point is, stop putting the blame on victims and ignoring the real causes of gender inequality/misogyny/etc. (hint: mayhaps socially constructed, yet very deeply entrenched social norms???) (ps not that it absolves rapists et al of blameworthiness – they are still to blame for their actions. but we need to confront the larger cause if we ever want to solve things) (pps “its always been this way” is not a good reason to ignore this larger cause. might we be more advanced/progressive in our ways of thinking and acting and surviving [esp in a moral sense] than we were thousands of years ago??? hmmm) (ppps its funny you say you don't get feminism when your view is “it sucks but its how it is” when feminism is the advocacy that it should change)

peace

Woah, your twitter name is “bdrapercomplex” WTF?

oh, i see. you're the one who wrote the articles about how you hate wine and hate cats.

women was just next on the list.

you hate everything i love.

PAGE VIEWS

Am I the only one who thinks that the brown-nosing/ridiculous Anon is just Chelsea?

“I had no one but myself to blame for the sudden nervous feeling that flared up in my stomach as I walked passed men checking out my shape in my revealing dress.”

You're kidding, right? I am so fucking confused. You blame yourself for catcalls?? The whole point of events like “Slut Walk” or “Denim Day” is not to coerce women into dressing more conservatively, or “classy,” but that your dress should not matter. Dress however the fuck you want because you're never the one to blame for *unwanted* attention.

I really did try to give your piece a chance, read it over a couple of times, but you just came out sounding like someone who has internalized a lot of shit and blames women “getting what they asked for” by dressing a certain way (you mentioned mixed signals when a woman says “no” while dressed a certain way. I mean, you flat out sound like Mike “The Situation” AKA resident douchbag) Not to mention sounding a bit snobby when you pointed out that you are fully aware one should not “dress like someone who is out tonight to find sex..” when one doesn't want it.

Damn, so riled up… I could really go for some Death Crunch right about now (<3u Jimmy)

Haha yeah, about that…

sounds like something someone 'easy' would say =p

And that, darling, is what I call provocation. Stay away from the internet if you can handle ad hominems. One day you'll make a good debater, don't let us trolls get in the way.

I was not wearing a skirt or a revealing shirt when I was sexually assaulted. I was not wearing those items when I was raped. Please go up some comments and read what the study said about rapists not being able to remember what their victims were wearing. There is no correlation between the two. It's about power.

I bet the author has raped someone and wrote this to feel better about herself.

like

You can't write as well as Fagan? Really? I mean sure, sure, she manages to hit the spellcheck button and all, but this ain't exactly shakespearian prose that's flowing out of her fingers.

Once you get past the whole “rape-is-nifty” jive, it's basically just boilerplate “these-are-my-opinions” style narrative interspersed with logic fact checked by a particularly malicious five year old.

Either way, congratulations, You just spent an hour or so defending rape on the internet! This is the live you have chosen! The prize patrol will be by shortly to spit on you! Yay!

ridin' the slutwave with Chelsea Fagan

Stay away from the internet if you can't recognize the myriad logical fallacies in your own arguments, darling. One day you'll become less condescending (but I might be giving you too much credit here).

Yes, but by talking only about rapes where the victim and attacker have not previously met, Chelsea invisibilizes the millions of other experiences that are statistically a lot more likely than the scare tactics she's using. So, my point is an attack on the very premise of her flawed argument.

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.”

Then HOLY SHIT, ARE MEN STUPID. I mean, WOW. Is it really, honest-to-God THAT FUCKING DIFFICULT to understand that when a woman tells you to back off, she means- get this!- BACK THE FUCK OFF?
How about instead of teaching men that they can do whatever the fuck they want and women that men are stupid animals with absolutely NO SELF-CONTROL WHATSOEVER, we just accept the fact that NO ONE HAS ANY RIGHT TO RAPE ANYONE FOR ANY REASON? WHY is that such an incredibly mind-blowing concept for you, shit stain?

It's obvious that you don't give half a shit about women, so I'm hoping I can at least appeal to you by asking you to think of what a hideous picture you're painting of men. YOU are the one sounding like a vicious man-hater here.

No one's stopping you. You might get replies if people disagree, but that is the nature of conversation.

I'm the editor of TC. This article is disgusting.

Hard to emphasize how awesome this comment is.

i checked out this girl's tumblr reply about this article, i hope she comes back to explain why people who don't think you should blame rape victims for being raped are “just thinking in black and white and following the party line”

Shut up, Chelsea.

nope. definitely not defending rape.

lord, the level of reading comprehension on this site is laughable.

No matter how a woman is dressed a man never has a right to continue to make unwanted advances upon being refused. There is never any excuse for rape, and women are certainly not to blame based on what they wear.

That being said, I do think that there is a big problem with young women (in my Ontario university town at least) wearing extremely revealing clothing to the club. Let me explain what I mean – I mean women wearing dresses that wouldn't cover their asses if they bent over, coupled with cleavage on the verge of popping out, and teetering heels.

These women may say that they dress in this fashion because they simply want to show their confidence and are empowered in their sexuality, but realistically I think most people put themselves on display in this manner because they want to attract the attention of either other females or males. In my personal opinion, it is never flattering to dress this way. I am not saying that is a provocative to simply bear your legs or even reveal a modest amount of cleavage, but I am not exaggerating in calling the dress of many young women my age and younger (I am a 22 year old woman) extreme.

Regardless of why you believe that women choose to dress in this way it is a sad statement about our society that many girls feel the need to dress so provocatively in order to feel sexy, beautiful, appealing, or confidant. Being sexually empowered does not mean freely offering your body as an obvious object of voyeurism.

I agree with the concept of the SLUTWALK, I am all for women standing up against the hugely problematic logic that women “ask for it” because this is never true – what I do find problematic, and confusing is how it is ok for women to go out actually dressed like sluts (yes I know it's supposed to be ironic), but I don't think that showing up to the event dressing up as a slut is in any way sending a positive message about the continued need for gender equality in our society.

i don't follow, but ok. apparently, according to everyone else here, a woman calling herself a slut is something that should be applauded! so i assume you calling me easy is also a compliment?

Clearly you're not an unintelligent woman, but you need to educate yourself. You have missed the point of this protest completely.

Okay, all snarky-douchebaggery aside, I have a straight-up legitimate response to you.

You claim that the everyone is misreading the intention and point of the article. And in the sense that, yes, nowhere in the text does it literally say “Rape is good,” you'd be correct.

But the point I believe most commenters are making is that this article, while not explicitly condoning rape, has a dangerous undercurrent. That this article suggests rape is “more understandable” when the female makes “poor choices.” In this case, dressing “slutily.” And I, like others, believe that this argument is both a fallacy (rape is never the victims vault) and that this sort of argument creates a “rape-permissive” culture.

[DISCLAIMER: Obviously not everyone is arguing this and/or not phrasing themselves as I am.]

on prostitutes/sluts: “implying that there's something inherently wrong with either is also misogynist, Chelsea” – yes! yes! yes!

you are so much smarter than I was in high school.

Carles, get out of here!

There's kind of a difference there, in that the individuals you addressed are criminals. Is being a woman in a public space a crime?

This is the best. The only misandry going on here is in Chelsea's article.

Best response to this article so far

OOOOH women can be misogynists too!

” Not all sexually aggressive acts are perpetrated by a violent repeat offender hiding in an alley.” Exactly, you've got it. But you go in the wrong direction. The point is, if a woman is dressed sparingly, she's not going to turn any random guy into a rapist or an aggressor. There isn't some scale or tipping point that turns a normal person into a criminal (and if I'm wrong, and there is, it certainly isn't amount of skin showing).

So, you cover up and walk with your head down at night. I'm 16 and I can't wear shorts without being harassed in the daytime. Whereas my male friends can. Yes, preventative measures can be taken. But I'm also not going to stay in my house to prevent myself from getting hit by a car. If you follow the metaphor.

Let me relay you here for more insight: http://womensglib.wordpress.co…

ANON, man up and admit you're Chelsea Fagan. You keep defending your same point of “avoiding rape”. There is NO excuse. You let mentally disturbed men off the hook waaayyy too easy here.

But good luck on expanding upon your “I'm a COOL girl, just one of the guys” persona.

“The internet gives people a forum to reveal how stupid they are.”
- Chelsea Fagan

Thanks for illustrating this for us Chelsea

Hey,
just to say I liked your essay.
I think everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, and that it sucks when people can't seem to understand everyone can have a different point of view.
I, for one, agree with your thoughts,
you go on, girl!

re-read the first four words you wrote, then delete this, hide, and think about what you did.

People are certainly entitled to opinions, but not when they infringe on the rights of others, blame the victims of violent crimes, and generally promote a woman-hating rape culture.

You totally misunderstand how the word “slut” is typically used and how most rapes occur. Slut can be applied to any woman, regardless of how she is dressed -there is at best a tenacious connection to clothing – it's more often used perjoratively against someone for reasons completely unrelated.

Second, in over 80% of sexual assaults, the perpetrator was a friend, relative or acquaintance of the victim, not a random person somehow unbearably attracted to her “slutty” attire. Rape is about power, not clothing. Telling women to dress differently does absolutely nothing to address the root causes, and it puts the blame on them. Women are assaulted regardless of the clothing they wear, and until we address the underlying social attitudes that makes some men think it's okay to assault a woman, this will continue to occur.

yeah, it's called educating men and society on the TRUE causes of rape (which is about power and seeing women as less-than-human), rather than trying to make women feel ashamed for being female in a public space. That's what one can do to lessen one's chances of being raped.

how desperately does this girl want to impress the creeps she must hang out with? this shit is sad from the first sentence.

Actually, I read her piece quite thoroughly and I got her message loud and clear. She thinks that certain victims are partly to blame for their own rapes. That is textbook victim-blaming. You probably missed that because you were too busy agreeing with her bullshit.

A couple of things:
-A few people have said in their comments that they aren't going to read Thought Catalog anymore or that they are disappointed in Thought Catalog for posting this article; my question is, would you rather Thought Catalog only post things you knew you would always agree with? Things that would never shock you or upset you? You'd honestly rather not hear any opinions that might differ from your own?
-I don't like that the protest was called Slutwalk. It seems obnoxious and doesn't really make me want to know more.
-People who say that they dress like sluts because they like to feel “sexy” are not helping their argument. Sexy does not mean just attractive or just exciting but SEXUALLY attractive, sexually exciting, sexually arousing/sexually aroused. The word “sexy” has sadly taken on a much more lax meaning but it would prove beneficial if everyone remembered what it originally meant.
-I'm going to be judged for the things I just said; but I am free to say them. Just as women are free to dress like sluts. I am aware that my statements make me susceptible to reactions both good and bad and everyone has the right to say what they feel etc etc, I am wasting my so much of my time trying to make a point that it so hard to make and most people won't even care enough to try to understand it.

the term slutty is subjective. the term slut is subjective. you did not underline what do you mean by “slutty”.

and quote, “Women know the kind of attention they attract when they dress like that. And just like the Supreme Court can’t define porn but knows it when it sees it, we know when we look into the mirror before we go out if we look like we’re trying to lay down for the first man that looks at us. Even if we don’t want to admit it.”

what are you trying to imply, that we girls actually do walk out of the house with “HEY, RAPE ME!” plastered across our heads, and thats why we have to be blamed when someone do rape us? not everyone of us deals with that kind of insecurities you're having, so dont generalize it and claim it as “we”.

So girls! dress in paperbags! I assure you, you wont be raped!
Sarcasm intended.

You seem to have missed a major point… or many. There is no uniform definition or construction on what a slut looks like. I've been called a slut because I just happen to be holding my girlfriends hand, or because some woman at a bar thinks that I may be competition. I see young girls called sluts by each other when they're dressing in pants and t-shirts because they don't like each other. So, if so many of us are characterised as sluts, how exactly do we dress?
Our North American culture pushes make-up, halter tops, tight clothing, heels, skirts, strapless attire, low-rise jeans, etc. So how many inches of a skirt above the knee or how much make-up, or what kind of strapless outfit makes someone a slut? Can you say you've never shown some skin that someone else wouldn't find to be 'too much'? Some people at SlutWalk held pictures of Disney characters like Ariel and Jasmin because by definitions like yours, they look like sluts.
Where do we draw the line on this subjective thinking that says, rightfully, no one picks an outfit to be unconsensually assaulted? When do we unify in saying a child isn't asking for it regardless of what the perpetrator says? When do people like you pay attention to the stories of so many survivors who say they were in casual clothes, a jacket, their scrubs, in their home, it was their friend who raped them and so on, and that people like you turned around and assumed they must have been dressed like a slut because somewhere, someone thought that they were? Stop blaming anyone but the perpetrator. Until you understand that, you defend, in part, those who commit these crimes.

You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

Great article! I had the Sam thoughts driving to work today. Showing cleavage at 2 in the afternoon is mug different than being half naked walking home on a Friday night after clubbing. The policeman should not said what he said but would we have had the same reaction if it was a female officer?
Why to Canadiens take to the streets with megaphones and huge signs over one misspoken comment from someone trting to protect us yet stand around and do nothing about our high and increasing taxes that are destroying this great country? Come on people … Think!

Posted from my iPhone so more spelling mistakes than usual.

We would have reacted similarly if a female officer had said it. I put a peron's physical safety and body violation and abuse over taxes. Contrary to the despicable jokes, taxes do not “rape people”. I wish more people thought this way and put our bodies above your money.

Agreed. Dressing “slutty” or my Male equivalent of having “my cute shit on” any given Friday night is not without purpose. I'm okay with catching glances.

I'm aware of the way I look/dress and how it gives the impression that I actually give a damn about myself.

fuck the thought catalog and fuck this idiot too

LOL YOU'RE AN ASSHOLE

http://www.shamelessmag.com/me…

By the way, you're an asshole. Even though you're probably trying to save face really hard by laughing at all your hate comments, you know you feel stupid, and probably at least a little bit like a giant asshole traitor.

You made me hate Thought Cloud. At least for the next few months. Whatever ends p happening, I sure as hell won't read any of your bullshit, mainstream-pleasing, cock-sucking, faux-hip, please-teh-menz articles anymore.

Trying to rebut outrage over rape apology and victim-blaming with rape apology and victim-blaming is just illogical and profoundly stupid. Good luck getting anyone with any merit whatsoever to agree with a thing you just said. Rape apology is rape apology is rape apology. You don't get to be sympathetic toward ALL rape victims (the word rape by its very nature implies force, remember?) while simultaneously implying that some RAPE victims deserved to be raped.

A very wise friend of mine said this:

'Seriously though, didn't we like, learn this in preschool?
Someone has a toy you want. They don't want to give you that toy. You take the toy. The teacher doesn't say, “Well Sally, it was your fault for having such a great toy! If you didn't show it off, no one would want it!” The teacher says, “We don't take things that aren't offered to us.” '

My mother was killed by a drunk driver, but it's her fault because she should have known better than to be driving on a Saturday night when a lot of people drive drunk. Everyone agrees, the tragedy could have been prevented if she had just used common sense and stayed inside her house.

Good point.

I loathe dingbats like you that reduce men to cavemanish brutes ruled not by their cognitive abilities but by their testicles.

Also, rape is not a crime of desire, but a crime involving exerting power and dominance and humiliation… it is an attempt to strip a victim of dignity.

And it's awful when society helps a rapist do that… it's disgusting that society tries to shame the victim, that it adds to the humiliation… that a society that claims to be about dignity is complicit in an act that seeks to take that very thing away…

the guys who agree with this woman hating bitch are just like fat people, they see fat food and know they shouldn't eat it, they know it's bad and will only make them fatter, but they eat it anyway and then blame the food, the supermarket, restuarant whatever, because they offer food. Get a grip on yourself, we are (mostly) people, not primitive animals.

my friend almost got raped when she was bending over to adjust the child seat in the back. She was wearing pants with a belt(!) and we were all sitting in the car when it happened. SO i guess as a woman, you can't wear skirts, tube tops, make-up or bend over…

and what is it to dress slutty? in Eastern Europe, woman reveal more than in Saoudi Arabia, there you get raped for showing your wrists. we don't rape men if they are showing too much skin? it's called education and manners! thank you

You have some good points but seriously, why bash fat people to make them? Really uncalled for and without that first sentence I'd like this comment

This article is absolutely disgusting and offensive. Aside from clearly missing the point, it makes me sad you feel this way, you have issues.

There are a lot of comments so this might have already been said (in which sorry to whoever I've just ripped off), but offhand comments like:
“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.”
and the idea that 'women are also responsible for rape are somewhat disturbing. On the one hand it paints men as being essentially retarded, ('leave them confused' I am sorry what? that comment is more likely to leave me confused), and rape victims culpable for their actions. The issue here is not that these women are getting 'victimized' because they aren't streetsmart or because they chose to where a suggestive blouse. The issue is that that situation exists in the first place: they can't wear it without considering assault as an outcome.

I'm with the other gay guy down there a ways…When I go out to clubs and dress a certain way, I know the kind of attention I get. Perhaps as a man I am more able to defend myself, but I have still felt threatened. I can't blame my clothes for generating the exact response they were intended to. Situations can devolve really quickly when they mix emotions, sexuality, alcohol, and social pressure. That doesn't give anyone the right to rape, but there are still precautions one can take to be as safe as possible. I don't agree with everything in this article, but I get the general sentiment.

BTW–Some commenters made good points, but they get lost in the sea of name-calling and childish yelling. If we want our ideas to be respected, we should convey them in a respectful way.

Okay… FUCK YOU YOU FUCKING RAPE APOLOGIST.

when girls dress like sluts in rap videos, do they not give the impression that girls are there for sex? do they not tell men that women just want to be fucked?

maybe in the individual cases dressing like a hooker doesn't always mean more sexual aggression, but doesn't a culture of women dressing like that as a last resort to get men's attention promote a culture of men feeling more at ease to take what they want from a woman?

I'm in the same position. I agree with most of your comment here but you decided to attack and belittle a certain group of people, fat people, based on appearance. Please don't devalue people because you make an assumption.

This is honestly one of the most conceited articles I have ever read that was a written by a woman. I must agree with the other commenters when stating that you, Ms. Fagan have missed a critical point when constructing your argument for more conservative dress. Your article fails in its attempt to act as a pseudo- Rape Prevention Guide. I must ask: What are you trying to accomplish with this article? To simply state that you are smarter than rape victims and to foolishly assume that you can empathize with rapists?

Most rapists state that their victims were “asking for it,” or that they appeared like they wanted some rough sex that left them battered, immobile, and worse, murdered. Was the mother wearing the jogging suit who decided to walk her child to school one day “asking for it” by dressing like a slut? Was the college freshman adorned in baggy jeans and a hoodie who followed her routine of taking the metro back to her house and was raped in broad daylight in the suburbs asking for it by showing too much skin, Ms. Fagan? These examples are not hypothetical situations – they are true cases. Using your infallible “reasoning” for the risk factors of rape, these women must have undoubtably dressed like “sluts” to have deserved the ultimate consequence of what your article warns us about. Am I correct, Ms. Fagan?

Again I must implore, how much skin is too much skin? These women were completely mindful of their surroundings and dressed what you would deem as “reasonable” for their tasks. You callously neglect that there are many other factors to rape, with *body language* acting a key determinant for predators when assessing their vulnerability of victims. When it comes down the more scantily clad target who will put up a fight or the easy target who will do little to battle, which one is the easier prey for the rapist? As a young and very conservatively dressed professional, I can tell you that I've received more hoots and hollers than the dime store prostitute for simply looking more well put together but definitely NOT like I would put out.

Even though you state that you try your best to dress like a dignified woman who is not an easy target for sex, Ms. Fagan, you can't predict what turns these sickos on and men will still see you as a sex object for merely being a woman whether you care to admit to this biological truth or not. If you or someone you loved were attack, do you know what the rapist would say Ms. Fagan? That they were “sexually charged” by your/her looks and that you were leading him on simply by your appearance. We all know this is a bullshit argument, but you'd be surprised by what flies in court because of lawyers who stack juries with misogynistic women like you to agree that, of course, the bruised, the beaten, and the immobile victim before you is the “harlot” by YOUR standards. There is only consensual and nonconsensual sex with the outfit playing NO part in speaking for the woman!

Again, I must reiterate the question: What are you trying to accomplish with this article? You try to mask your blaring misogyny under the guise of a Rape Prevention Guide, but your contrived self-righteousness only assists in placing yourself on a fraudulent pedestal by justifying the actions of sick, violent men. Most of the conceit lies in your presumptuousness of the mentality of these women! I hope that you can still sleep at night knowing that you biologically are what you so obviously hate.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

This comment is clever.

This article might have worked if it was about getting hit on… not about being raped. I can imagine that tight latexy, revealing clothing has something to do with what sort of attention the wearer receives, male or female. The wearer might not deserve it, but the chain of cause and effect is there. Rape, however….? Violent crime is a different beast entirely. No one invites that.

Still, I don't think Chelsea Fagan is a woman hating beast. She has an opinion and now she has 210 other counter-opinions to think about. We should all be so lucky.

If you were trying to cause a stir, well done. Seriously though, rock your “Modest Is Hottest” shirt as far from the rest of us as possible. This Chelsea-Handler-but-with-my-legs-CLOSED look is a bad one, both for you and for TC.

“The truth of the matter is that rape, murder, battery, verbal assault, and everything in between have existed for as long as humans have. There is a constant threat, especially in concentrated urban areas, that you will be a victim at some point.”

..so therefore it is entirely logical to concede to things (rape culture, victim blaming) that are fucked up because they've been fucked up forever?

as a rape victim (i was twelve, and pranced around in tutus and belly shirts, i must have been BEGGING FOR IT) and a fellow “22-year-old woman,” this article just makes me… sad. what a shame, i never would have guessed that thought catalog would post garbage like this. poorly written, poorly argued, illogical, desperate, and just plain wrong.

if you don't understand feminism, go home, read a book, take a fucking workshop, and learn some shit. any decent human should be a feminist–it's not actually a word to be afraid of–because it just means that we believe people of all genders are equal. that we should at least hope to live in a world (instead of assessing the risks and then living life so as not to offend OTHERS' aesthetics) where a choice in clothing or transportation or language or profession DOES NOT EQUAL LOSING THE RIGHT TO CONSENSUAL SEX ACTS.

Wow, reading these comments, I had no idea that questioning feminism was so taboo for a woman (so much for getting women to think for themselves?). Modern feminism doesn't have everything right and doesn't even fight for everyone. Plus the mainstreamers seem to be from one demographic and fighting mostly for their own demographic.

But about this article, its not that extreme. I'm glad someone is saying some reasonable shit like this. She's not blaming rape victims for their rape, but she is saying that we should exercise caution in the way we dress because it can be a factor, not the whole reason, just a factor. We can't act like people shouldn't make any assumptions because of how we dress, that's stupid.

In any other situation, like a job interview, formal event, we would definitely admit that how we dress communicates something. She only advocating for a little bit of safety, and she's expressing her own opinions about how to behave as a woman and not just following whatever popular “feminism” says.

I'm sorry, but what she is saying is far from “reasonable” smh

her logic is illogical.

“The truth of the matter is that rape, murder, battery, verbal assault, and everything in between have existed for as long as humans have. “

yeah? well slavery has been around for as long as humans have…. does that make it right? women just got to vote barely a century ago! kind of shows you how slow progress takes and how something like equal rights doesn't just happen over night. this girl should be THANKING feminism for her ability to write and post on thought catalog. cause lady, 100 years ago that wouldn't be the case for a 22 year old girl. women who say “i dont get feminism” really disappoint me because they take it for granted. and don't take the time to “understand” it.

regardless of that, the author is making a statement about RAPE that is victim-blaming and putting the onus of rape on the person who is getting raped.

this article just perpetuates the idea that not raping women is just SO hard for men to do. PUH-leaaase. don't place the onus of rape on the victim because of what s/he decided to wear. raping another human being is not an easy thing to, physically or mentally. the author trivializes it by saying something like “dont wear a short skirt and you won't get raped.” what about women who are fully clothed that get raped? what about men who get raped?

hey author, listen up. here are some smart rules to prevent sexual assault, taken from this article: http://blog.iblamethepatriarch…

Sexual Assault Prevention Tips Guaranteed to Work

1. Don’t put drugs in women’s drinks.

2. When you see a woman walking by herself, leave her alone.

3. If you pull over to help a woman whose car has broken down, remember not to rape her.

4. If you are in a lift and a woman gets in, don’t rape her.

5. When you encounter a woman who is asleep, the safest course of action is to not rape her.

6. Never creep into a woman’s home through an unlocked door or window, or spring out at her from between parked cars, or rape her.

7. When you lurk in bushes and doorways with criminal intentions, always wear bright clothing, wave a flashlight, or play “Boys Who Rape (Should All Be Destroyed)” by the Raveonettes on a boombox really loud, so women in the vicinity will know where to aim their flamethrowers.

8. USE THE BUDDY SYSTEM! If it is inconvenient for you to stop yourself from raping women, ask a trusted friend to accompany you when lurking in shadows.

9. Carry a rape whistle. If you find that you are about to rape a woman, you can hand the whistle to your buddy, so s/he can blow it to call for help.

10. Give your buddy a revolver, so that when indifferent passers-by either ignore the rape whistle, or gather round to enjoy the spectacle, s/he can pistol-whip you.

11. Don’t forget: Honesty is the best policy. When asking a woman out on a date, don’t pretend that you are interested in her as a person; tell her straight up that you expect to be raping her later. If you don’t communicate your intentions, the woman may take it as a sign that you do not plan to rape her.

In other words, the best way to prevent rape is to not rape anybody.

amen

so you're basically saying here that if women go out in public, they should make sure to remain covered from head to toe ?

I think you missed the point entirely. The Slut Walk wasn't about mere cat calls and leers and sexual advances, and it WASN'T about the right to dress like sluts. It's about rape. It's about how women should NEVER be raped because of what they wear, or are not wearing, and clothing is not an excuse to EVER rape a woman, nor should it be one. Not everyone at the slut walk was dressed like a slut either, so you indeed missed the point entirely.

Sadly, if you agree that a Woman's attire is invitation to rape, you're part of the problem these brave people (Men AND Women) who participated are trying to correct. No matter what a woman is wearing, no means no and that's it. The fact that law enforcement would say that “no” doesn't matter when you're dressed provocatively (And that term is very subjective, as to some men even a business suit is provocative) is disgusting, especially when he then passes blame onto the woman herself.

I'm not saying you're anti-feminist in any way, and if you take this comment as meaning I said that then you're wrong and, dare I say, ignorant, but this whole article is just 8 paragraphs of sheer ignorance. I'm just saying that if you're going to criticize something, the least you could do is know what you're talking about. This article disgusted me. If you believe that a woman should be blamed for being raped because of what she is dressing, than there is something seriously wrong with your line of thinking. Cat calls is one thing. Being beaten, having your clothing ripped off and being raped is quite another. No one deserves that, no matter what they're wearing.

At the end of the article she says people who are 'dressed like sluts' who get raped “are being, to some degree, irresponsible.” That directly implies that the victim of the rape is responsible for their own rape, “to some degree.” How exactly is that NOT blaming rape victims for their rape? I didn't really notice anything specifically about feminism in this article, or the comments.

i'm really impressed with the commenters here. :) and if any editors are reading: seriously, y'all. what does it take to be a writer here? because i will totally pinch hit for you while you find someone to replace chelsea fagan. this has deeply offended my sensibilities.

now, chelsea. the underlying problem with your article, as so many others have pointed out, is this. women aren't wrong for dressing like sluts. the problem is that it's even a factor. that we live in a world where it seems logical to you and cops and judges that if a woman does this, or that, or fails to do x or y, it's perfectly logical and natural that she should be raped–stripped of her autonomy and violated and discarded. do you understand? you are saying, “well, women who dress this way should just resign themselves to being raped.” the commenters here are trying to get you to see “it's really fucked up that women's autonomy is so restricted, that women are not free in public. or in their homes. or anywhere.”

look at what i mean:

I attended a workshop about preventing gender violence, facilitated by Katz. There, he posed a question to all of the men in the room: “Men, what things do you do to protect yourself from being raped or sexually assaulted?”Not one man, including myself, could quickly answer the question. Finally, one man raised his hand and said, “Nothing.” Then Katz asked the women, “What things do you do to protect yourself from being raped or sexually assaulted?” Nearly all of the women in the room raised their hand. One by one, each woman testified:

“I don’t make eye contact with men when I walk down the street,” said one.
“I don’t put my drink down at parties,” said another.
“I use the buddy system when I go to parties.”
“I cross the street when I see a group of guys walking in my direction.”
“I use my keys as a potential weapon.”

“I carry mace or pepper spray.”
“I watch what I wear.” http://www.racialicious.com/20…

OR how about:
Rape culture is telling girls and women to be careful about what you wear, how you wear it, how you carry yourself, where you walk, when you walk there, with whom you walk, whom you trust, what you do, where you do it, with whom you do it, what you drink, how much you drink, whether you make eye contact, if you're alone, if you're with a stranger, if you're in a group, if you're in a group of strangers, if it's dark, if the area is unfamiliar, if you're carrying something, how you carry it, what kind of shoes you're wearing in case you have to run, what kind of purse you carry, what jewelry you wear, what time it is, what street it is, what environment it is, how many people you sleep with, what kind of people you sleep with, who your friends are, to whom you give your number, who's around when the delivery guy comes, to get an apartment where you can see who's at the door before they can see you, to check before you open the door to the delivery guy, to own a dog or a dog-sound-making machine, to get a roommate, to take self-defense, to always be alert always pay attention always watch your back always be aware of your surroundings and never let your guard down for a moment lest you be sexually assaulted and if you are and didn't follow all the rules it's your fault. http://shakespearessister.blog…

and see also http://shakespearessister.blog…
FEMINISM 101, for you, the woman who doesn't “get” feminism!

PROBABLY TLDR FOR YOU CHELSEA, BUT I TRIED.

though the feminist movement, like most social-activism movements, is problematic (like how many feminists rarely account for people of color, transpeople, and poor people) i don’t think that starting an article with “i’ve never understood feminism” is a good way to get your criticisms across. like, at all.

i find it extremely worrisome that someone who in many ways is similar to me (having read her previous TC articles), could think that with my choice in clothing, transportation, language or profession, i could also be choosing to give up my right to consensual sex. that should never be the case—yes, we are a long way from a risk-free society, but i think it is too dangerous, too complacent to cater to it. i think we should fight for each other all the time, in every way, and i think that understanding that is the first step to understanding feminism.

Your article seems to focus on adult women who dress like “sluts”. What is your perspective on how young girls and/or children in general should dress to avoid being raped or in the words of the Toronto Police officer “victimized” by sexual violence?

It boggles the mind that anyone, especially a young woman, can espouse the beliefs that you have put forward in this article. Sexual violence has nothing to do with how a person is dressed. If it did ONLY women who dress like “sluts” would be raped/victimized. This is obviously not the case and it would still be wrong! How is it possible that you don’t understand this?

Chelsea Fagan, you're so going to regret this in a few years. Mark my words, rape apologist. One day, something will happen to change your mind about feminism and rape apology and you will look back and wish this could be erased from the internet. But it never will be. You put this out there for the world to see and it will be here forever. Damaging your otherwise unknown name. Haunting you. Following you. The friends of yours who have been sexually assaulted (and if you are friends with women, that would be about 25%) probably don't like you very much now. You're not even willing to defend the women you know and love who have been raped or assaulted when they weren't dressing like sluts. All because you're a poor writer who didn't take the time to fact check. You should be ashamed.

What does a gangbanger dress like? Just so I can be sure to avoid them next time I'm walking through the park alone.

Are you serious?

Next time I go out, I'll just leave my vagina at home in my safe. That'll solve this whole rape problem.

This is fucking revolting.

Chelsea – I really don't see why what you wrote is so offensive. I think you have a really good point, and you don't sound at all like a “woman-hater.”

Apparently, as a woman, you have to agree with everything raging feminists say in order to keep from being attacked by them like a gang of menstruating hyenas.

sorry wasn't meant like that, just to say: you shouldn't do it, but you do it anyway, because you want to and it makes you feel good. There is nothing wrong with being fat.

just what i was trying to say: my friends are always complaining when they gain some weight, so they don't blame themselves, but I see them eating double portions. so they blame the fat food.

but no harm to people who have a fuller figure and like to eat, nothing wrong with that at all!
it's just to explain the same human reflex: you see, you want, you take. and it is that mechanism that i don't approve off..

sorry if I have offended anyone, no bad intentions
could have chosen a better way to illustrate my point, when you have high cholesterol and yous till keep eating what you shouldn't eat, even if you know it's wrong. voila, better now? :)

lulz
someone should make like, a thought catalog for adults….

likewise

I'm going to guess that your guess is just about as accurate as a blind man playing darts for the first time

Women + debate = ad hominem.

fact of life.

my point is that according to your original post,

“unless the sexually driven man in question is an animal or retarded i don't think a woman saying no repeatedly is really that “confusing” no matter what she's wearing.”

a man (whether sexually driven or not) is an animal and falls under your supposed exception. bro

feministing has a nice response to this victim blaming:

http://feministing.com/2011/04…

Personally, I find this very insulting, and I don't even consider myself a feminist. No I don't agree that EVERY woman should feel pressured into being a hardcore business woman just because that's what feminism preaches. No I don't feel that women who choose not to do so are old fashioned, anti-feminist failures as women. No I don't feel like I need to loathe men for everything they ever do and fight them on every decision. No, I wasn't P.O.d because Hillary Clinton didn't win the elections (I was actually relieved for the US, she's not fit to be president.) However, being told that what I wear dictates whether I should be raped or not because men have a right to rape scantily clad women? Yes, I find that offensive.

And I also find it offensive that I'm being called a “Menstruating Hyena” just because I have an opinion that disagrees with hers.

god you live a sheltered life. i feel sorry for you.

a lot of truth here. keep this stuff on TC

Women shouldn't leave the house, either then, to guarantee they have taken adequate precaution to avoid being harassed or raped.

This blew my fucking mind.

I am saddened by the vicious reaction to this article. The author makes a good point (albeit not always in the best way), that every adult is reposnible for the image they portray to the outside world, and that there are certain ways of dressing, speaking and behaving that are universally recognised and that are almost guaranteed to provoke certain reactions from others.

This, in my opinion, is at the heart of this article – a fact that the perhaps rather crude allusion to rape and sexual violence mars somewhat.

Moreover, the retraction by the editor (We're So Sorry About “The Funny Thing About the Slutwalk” http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011… is unneccesarily crude and vulgar, and makes use of the sort of language that I would not expect from such a publication. If it's discussion and comment you are aspiring to, then at least conduct it in a civilised manner.

Wow. As a “victim of rape myself”, I find this article to be my life in a nutshell. Everyone that has ever known about what happened to me has rationalized the attacker's behavior to some extent. I've wanted to speak about but due to the stigma, but “I'm not allowed”. I don't want to be seen as a victim, I want to be seen as a survivor but the stigma always makes you seem like a victim, and yet the comments coming from people make me feel like the attacker. Every time I talk about it, it's like I should be ashamed of myself…

Regardless, moving on to addressing what was said in this article. I was a child when this happened. And it was my father. I have been told by people I was to blame for what happened and for a long time, I believed it. How could a child ever be “sexual” or “want” such thing to happen? And I still got blamed. No matter who you are, what you wear, or anything, no one “asks” for rape. Even if are asking (no matter what you wear) for sex, you're not asking for VIOLENCE.

People with f*cking Burqas get raped, for f*ck's sake. This is unbelievable.

I'm sorry I missed all of this.

Criticizing feminism is fine! But I'm not sure if this was the way to go about it.

Point taken. I was talking more about the author's concept of “base level,” though. I do think (oh wait, it's right there above…yeah!…) I ended my comment with a pretty definitive statement on how clothes do not excuse rape. But, well, fuck me for being calmly and methodically critical of an argument I disagree with. I'll be more shrill next time.

File under: Internalized oppression.

I mean, really, black people should try not to act too black. That way it'll be easier to respect them.

Guaranteed to provoke… rape? Who's fault is it when rape happens, EDESPOSTI? That is the very crux of the matter, and the fundamental question behind Slutwalk. If you can't understand that, it's a real shame.

Can someone please show me an outfit that makes any person even partially responsible for another autonomous human forcefully raping them? Because I feel like I'm missing something. Maybe I glanced over the law that says women are protected from being violently and sexually assaulted…unless they're skirt is above their knees. Then they're just shit outta luck, dirty whore.

If her point was about taking responsibility for our image, her linking it to rape victims implies she believes it justifies the act. The linkage presented in this form completely undermined the strength of that argument, assuming this is actually her point. Right off the start she pointedly antagonized her audience. The reader has to assume her intent because if she had any credible points she buried them beneath provocative and distracting nonsense.

I certainly do not regret my heated response . If she's a victim of misunderstanding, it's because of ill put, poorly supported assumptions that lack full consideration of the implications as well as credible research to back her position. It's ironic how the fallout of her piece, which seems to be drawing a correlation between action and consequence, supports her argument better than anything she said previously.

What you wrote is disgusting. I hope you feel good about all the people you upset, all the women who have been victims of sexual assault who read your words. I hope you feel great about making them feel like what happened to them is their fault. I feel bad for you, you don't have a fucking clue about anything. I hope you never discover how the world really functions because your little head might not be able to handle it. We don't live in rape culture? Wake up.

The disturbing belief behind this article is that men have a right to take what they want sexually from women, regardless of direct permission.

THEY DON'T HAVE THAT RIGHT.

A person's manner of dress may indeed be a signal that s/he wants attention and is looking for sex. When you groom yourself to be as desirable as possible, you're generally trying to increase your chances of hooking up. You'll probably have to turn down some requests.
That doesn't mean you become the public property any old idiot who wants a piece of your ass.
They can respectfully make a request, and you can say no, and then they should drop the issue.

If a person wants a piece of your ass and you don't want to give it to them, they need to respect your wishes, not harass you or browbeat you or force themselves on you. The harassment, the pushiness, and the ultimate violence of rape? That's on the perpetrator, 100%.

The problem isn't with women's outfits or where they choose to walk at night.
The problem is with society's attitude of entitlement.

Yup! As long as you don't send out a general “rape me!” signal with your clothes, you'll be totally safe from sexual violence! Wow. Since I don't own anything that resembles the outfit in the opening scenes of Pretty woman, I will never have to experience rape. Phew.

Horrible. I expect much, much better from Thought Catalog. TC might lose me as a reader if more articles like this are posted. And I'm male. I can't begin to tell you how pissed my female friends will be about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V…

Rape often happens in the home from family members and neighbors and other “trusted people.” Everyone knows what's under your snuggie. Sorry, bad joke.

This blew my mind, too.

Hm. Would you mind providing addresses of your family members please? The folks who believe as you do — that a clothing check is the signal for rape or not rape, safety or not safety — may want to meet the women in your life. You know, just to see whether they're getting the right message.

Or do you provide that kind of servicing yourself already?

Just in case your lack of critical thinking skills actually leads to you posting those addresses, let me state that I was trying to point out the idiocy of your comments. While there are some societies in which women are covered from head-to-toe just to keep them from “tempting blameless men,” we smarter people reject that.

If you want to advocate for safety, how about you recommend that your fellow men not walk the streets. That way, women can have the freedom like men to dress however they like at anytime with anyone anywhere without being blamed for their attack.

In any case, sorry for your brain loss.

Yes, they are definitely “asking for it”.

Thank you for being so edgy and taking up this issue. Next, let's rescind their right to vote.

Regards,
White-Male-Who-Should-Be-Allowed-To-Rape-Anyone-That-Looks-Appealing-To-Me

I'm confused…so because I didn't make it a blatant point to shame the author I am automatically a rape apologist? I said that people shouldn't boycott Thought Catalog just because they disagree with one thing they posted. I said that I didn't like the name Slutwalk, just the name not the actual walk. Then I reminded people about the definition of the word sexy. Then I actually made a point about how women are free to dress like sluts but not free to do so without being judged, just as I was free to write that comment but will also be judged for everything I said. I was lamenting the fact not blaming anyone. And then I talked about how everyone who responded to this article had the right to and the point I was trying to make was that the author of this post has as much of a right to have this opinion (no matter how offensive) as women do to dress like sluts. That they have the right but that the reaction, sadly, will happen no matter what. Nowhere did I say anything about rape-apology or victim-blaming.

Truly.
We shouldn't stay in our houses either, in case someone we know can't help themselves and harasses or rapes us there. Really, we shouldn't exist at all, that would definitely guarantee that we won't be harassed or raped. If we're non-existant, we're clearly not asking for it, right?

If you cannot make the distinction between “want to have sex” with “want to be raped” YOU are part of the problem.

For the safety of all the women and girls around you — related to you and not — please keep yourself INDOORS until you get that right.

Interesting. You say that people should be responsible for their behavior, yet you focus only on women. Are rapists not responsible for their behavior? Or are you trying to imply that men are all rapists and women should all know that, so anything men do is the fault of women?

Why do you hate men so much?

translation: I have a bone to pick with feminists, so I lie. A LOT.

Let me tell you a little story, sweetie.

Once upon a time, I was walking home around midnight in the infamous Mission District of San Francisco. Some drunk, middle-aged dickhead approached me and had the audacity to ask “How much?” Guess what I was wearing: an over-sized hoodie, jeans, and boots. And no, the jeans were not skin tight and the boots were not heels. Did I deserve to have this asshole follow me for nearly five blocks trying to haggle a deal as if I were a hooker? No. Did he deserve it when I finally got so fed-up that I pushed him and he nearly stumbled into oncoming traffic. Yes.

Moral of the story: sexual aggression rarely has anything thing to do with provocative clothing. Like many have said in the comments before mine, rape is about POWER, not sex.

Now stick that in your pipe and smoke it, bitch.

translation: sit down, smile pretty and be p0lite. That will TOTALLY make rapists stop raping.

Childish is tagging yourself Elton John. ((get off the stage))

Since most women and girls are raped by people they know (relatives, neighbors, dates), the author and you are way off target.

And, hey, last I checked, you don't get out of a crime charge with “well, I was drinking, officer, and there was all this peer pressure…” Rape is a criminal act not a bar night come on, child.

This is my first and last evening on Thought Cloud. When I want this type of laughable idiocy, I turn to the funny pages.

Um, hello? This article was written by a woman and the vast majority here are calling her out on it. You don't get a pass on acting like a fool because you're a woman.

With your logic, a woman wearing a Burqa is asking for trouble if she's walking in the “wrong” neighborhood, right?

Ummm feminism preaches that women should be whatever they want to be, because it's about choice. If a feminist ever told a woman she needed to be a business woman… then she's not a very good feminist.

“You'd honestly rather not hear any opinions that might differ from your own?”

That's right. As most savvy readers know, publications are identified with WHAT THEY PUBLISH. Why in the world would I want to support a publication that thinks it'd be “fun” to run an article that blames crime victims???

I don't surf the pages of hate groups for sport either, just in case you're wondering.

When the next several people walk up to you and tell you you deserve to be raped for whatever you're wearing, I hope you smile and defend them as generously for having a different point of view as you do here. Don't forget to thank them vigourously.

You go on, girl!

Sooo, you're saying men are violent simpletons and we need to just accept that?

The *real* world has nothing to do with what you're wearing, as the *real* statistics about rape victims prove over and over again. You're simply spouting stereotypes and pretending it's scientific cause and effect. Just stop.

By the way, the type of people who believe this are the same ones who believe in beating and bullying f*gs to make them real men. Seriously, you need to NEVER be identified with those people.

“No, women probably shouldn't wear a miniskirt into a dark alley”

I live in one of the safest metropolitan cities in the world. I walk through dark streets a lot. If I was randomly beaten up here or in Slutwalk city, no one would question what I was wearing. NO ONE.

Skip these lines. You cannot concede even one typed letter to this b.s.

Again, the confusion of sexual interest with sexual assault. That's not courtship. They're not looking to procreate, enter a loving connected relationship, or otherwise date. What the fcuk is wrong with you?

If this writer has any merit, rape victims need only sue the fashion industry for placing them in harm's way, right?

I mean, they KNEW that it signaled something and did NOTHING to prevent it. Where were the long sleeves on that tank top? Why wasn't that mini skirt made to flow to the ground? How dare they design makeup and jewelry that would call out to some rapist?

Class action lawsuit? What do you say, fellow sluts? Whose with me??

I actually feel bad for the author of this article. Think of all the ways she has had to change her life because of her constant fear of rape. Think of the fear she felt going out at night in a skimpy outfit, and how that fear has caused her to stop dressing the way she wanted to when going out. This fear was NOT her fault. This fear was the fault of men who leered, who catcalled, who threatened. But she took that guilt on to herself. She listened to a world that told her that she was at fault for the transgressions of creepy men who have no respect for women, who will hurt a woman just because they want to feel power over her body.

Then she took her own fear and she pushed it out onto the world. It's not just HER fault that men are rude and aggressive, it's the fault of every woman who encounters their aggression who is not sufficiently afraid, sufficiently meek, sufficiently cowed before social constraints placed on her for the wrongs that men do. And what about women who are raped by partners? By family members? Women who are raped at work or at school? Did they do something wrong, too? Did they magically deserve to be hurt because of who they were or some little thing they did?

And then show wrote this article. She did get one thing right: she doesn't get feminism, because feminism is about a world where women won't encounter aggression for showing their bodies, where we don't have to be afraid to walk down the street. She doesn't get the slutwalk because she is to wrapped up in her own fear and useless guilt to see that demanding equality, demanding to be able to show our bodies and not be afraid, is demanding to be treated as equals in our society. She doesn't get it because she is so afraid of the men around her, in her neighborhood or at a club or wherever she works, that she can't fight back.

So I really feed bad for her. I don't know how to explain that she should have the right to wear what she wants, to go where she pleases, that we should all have that right no matter where we live (North Philly, here!) to be safe on the street as women.

mm lots of things i could say about why this article is really bad for women. i guess the most simple way to put it is, when the author says she stopped wearing revealing clothing because she wanted men to look at her and think something other than 'i could have sex with her tonight', the problem was not her clothing. the problem is some men think that. it is one thing for someone to assume you MAY be more promiscuous because of how you dress. i understand that if you wish not to be stared at don't wear attention grabbing clothing. but 1) I wear revealing clothing an am not promiscuous, so it is not a given and 2) it is entirely an incorrect conclusion to assume that you are inviting or tolerating rape. anyone who thinks they are entitled to rape a women is clearly in the wrong, and how you dress or anything a woman does doesn't change that the man is fundamentally choosing to violate that woman against her wishes (by definition of rape). slutty clothing does not turn an otherwise law abiding man into a rapist.

there are so many things women can do to decrease their chance of being raped (although it is never entirely under a woman's control) but i would say 1) it is unfortunate the extent to which a women needs to be cautious or even paranoid to significantly decrease her chances of being raped as it is far too prevalent an occurance, and 2) the way she dresses is definitely not on any valid list of precautionary behaviors. I don't understand why there are so many articles and discussions about this. Can you please just write an article that actually helps women like how to ease slowly into alcohol consumption so you can understand how it changes your thought processes and not find yourself intoxicated and in a dangerous area/situation, or take a self defense class or have a system where you friends always make sure that everyone got home safe, or if a stranger is looking at you make eye contact so they know you have seen them and then have your phone out ready to dial 911, etc….jeez the two friends i have that were raped dressed very conservatively and were conservative in every sense yet I was the one who has never been assaulted. like get a clue before you write articles that hurt rather than help women.

rrright. and you couldnt interpret what was being implied by the use of the word “animal”. women are animals too. but i am a female human (an animal) and would never permit myself to violate someone because of what they are wearing.

and plenty of male animals can and do restrain themselves. the point is humans are animals that are capable of more restraint and the rest are just excuses. or if someone actually isn't capable then they really need to be locked up and they are going to violate people regardless of what women wear, lets be real.

great response. for those of you who don't get the humor at the end, its a great reminder that the cause of rape is rapists. not what women do, as the definition of rape implies it is inherently unwelcome to the victim. there are tons of practical things women can do to DECREASE (not eliminate) their risk of being raped. someone knowledgeable about rape and rape prevention would recommend a lot of actions and behaviors that have nothing to do with how you dress. write about that next time if you choose to revisit this subject please. or an article about how rape is an unfortunately prevalent and poorly understood crime in our society.

of course only a woman who 'doesn't get feminism' would use rights won by previous feminists to post about dressing more conservatively to avoid being raped….

I can completely see why you don't consider yourself a feminist, since you clearly understand exactly nothing about feminism. Jesus.

Rape victims don't ask to be raped. RAPISTS make the decision to rape people. It's really simple, actually, when you think about it. Rape = 100% the fault of rapists.

Yes I would find it normal, not quite guaranteed, but close, if my dressing provocatively made all men stare at me, leer or cat call. That someone would find it OK or more justified to rape me based on what I wear is a big problem and certainly not my fault. Saying women should expect to be looked at for wearing attention grabbing clothing is perfectly fine. Really the only problem is bringing in rape. It is so weird that there are so many people willing to malign or admonish women for what they wear when the behavior that always strikes me as ghastly is a man thinking it is justified to rape a women because she is wearing a skirt (or wearing pants and a long sleeved shirt, as that also happens).

It is not 'perhaps' a crude allusion. It is very crude, I think it strikes me this way more because after two friends of mine were raped, both who were very conservative in every sense, I have learned more about the issue of rape. In turn I have come to understand how associating how a woman acts or dresses with 'asking for it' 1) is terrible psychologically for victims (all victims, both those who were very cautious and those who aren't) and 2) promotes a culture that makes rape more acceptable in the minds of potential rapists. That is why this article is truly appalling to many people. To be fair, 5 years ago the article would have bothered me but I may not have known exactly why and I wouldn't have had as strong a response. But please try to understand where people are coming from on this issue.

OH LOOK. ANOTHER GLARING EXAMPLE OF RAPE-POSITIVE AND SHAMING CULTURE ACCEPTED AND EMBRACED BY WOMEN. This is why things don't change. You are perpetuating the very environment you apparently want to abolish.

OH LOOK. ANOTHER GLARING EXAMPLE OF RAPE-POSITIVE AND SHAMING CULTURE ACCEPTED AND EMBRACED BY WOMEN. This is why things don't change. You are perpetuating the very environment you apparently want to abolish.

“I’ve never understood feminism.”

Simple terms: Feminism is the radical notion that men and women should be treated equally and fairly.

Rape is not about sex, rape is about power. Hence, rape is not about how a woman was dressed, but instead how a man has been socialized to believe he is more powerful and worthy than a woman.

hank single lets be friends.

“I’ve never understood feminism.”

No surprise there, you seem like an idiot anyway.

MMmm I see this article was controversial but I'm pretty sure she didn't really meant to say that women provoke rapists, she tried to be funny by moking a group of “slut”and she is right!
I mean this “slut group” makes women who actually been victimes lose their credibility.
And YES they are ridiculous dressing like whores while “apparently fighting sexual assaults”.

1. Feminism DOESN'T pressure people into being “hardcore business women.”

Feminism DOES work to make sure women who *want to be* business women have access into the arena. Feminism DOES work to ensure equal pay for women who *want to become* business women. Feminism DOES strive to eradicate the sexual harassment that women in the business world must face.

2. Feminism DOESN'T castigate homemakers as “old fashioned, anti-feminist failures.”

Feminism DOES call for people to recognize domestic work and child-rearing as challenging and valuable activities. Feminism DOES recognize that because of the challenging and difficult nature of this work, it is unfair to force women into bearing the full load of these duties if they have other goals and desires. Feminism DOES call for men to take on their fair share in domestic work and child-rearing.

3. Feminism DOESN'T “loathe men for everything they ever do”…

Feminism DOES point out the inequalities between genders and the position of relative privilege that men inhabit within our society. Feminism DOES point out that many men do not recognize their position of privilege and thus perpetuate a world of gender inequality. The feminist movement IS made up of *men and women both.*

4. Feminism DIDN'T get “P.O.d because Hillary Clinton didn't win the elections”.

Feminism IS made up of a whole gamut of individuals from many political parties and backgrounds that don't necessarily agree on who the best presidential candidate is. Feminism DID point out the unfair amount of media attention focused on Hillary and Sarah Palin's *appearance and clothing* while the same outlets only discussed the *politics* of male candidates.

I think you'll find that you're more of a feminist than you think.

Yes! For years we've been using the “buddy system” all wrong!

It's shouldn't be a girl bringing her buddy to keep her safe at parties. It should be a man being escorted by his “buddy” to keep him from lapsing into “skirt-induced” brutalizations of fellow humans!

Where did you get your ideas about “modern feminism”? It's been 40 years since the Feminine Mystique and a lot has changed since then… Third wave feminism of “modern” times is characterized by a focus on “double-marginalized” groups, including a SPECIFIC FOCUS on women of color, disabled women, LGBTI people, women of faith, women in the military etc.

Seriously… It's even on Wiki. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T…

And yeah, modern feminism doesn't have everything right, but what social movement does? And guess what? FEMINISTS DEFINITELY HAVE IT RIGHT IN THIS CASE.

so true, what would be actually effective is to start with men; education and more effective justice systems to reduce rape. Second, are things women can do that are actually proven to be effective, methods that acknowledge that to avoid rape one tries to avoid being in vulnerable situations with rapists. the focus on clothing implies that revealing clothing creates rapists, which is a completely incorrect excuse for a man's behavior. it is amazing how an act committed mainly by men causes so much focus on women's behavior.

If you want respect, dress respectably. In all cases, for all genders, for all people, this is true. Unless you want your banker to be wearing a Republican National Convention t-shirt next time you go to get a home loan or something.

You sure as hell don't understand feminism. But you're aces at sanctimonious victim blaming. The point of their protest was that despite the cop's perception, and yours, rape does not only happen to women who dress like “sluts”. It's been known to happen to modestly dressed women, to women covered from head to toe, to children, to senior citizens, and hey! It's even been known to happen to MEN! No one's choice of attire makes them responsible for a felony committed against them. If you must wag your fingers at someone, why not place the blame where it REALLY belongs–on the RAPISTS.

Damn, you'd think you'd need an evolved brain to write on something called “thought catalog”. What a bunch of knuckle dragging neanderthal BS.

So women who dress “disrespectfully” deserve to be raped? Personally I wouldn't GIVE a fuck about what my banker was wearing, that's their choice. What constitutes as respectful? Because to some people, even me going out with my full face showing is “disrespectful.” Me dressing in Gothic attire is “disrespectful.” I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't REALIZE what you just said, and I'd hope you keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot than open your mouth and prove it so. There's a huge difference between a banker wearing a casual t-shirt giving out loans and a woman wearing a short skirt getting raped.

Because I've seen a LOT of hardcore feminists chastise other women because of their choices to be housewives. I've seen a LOT of feminist sites bawwwing because Hillary didn't win, and many of them condemning men for being, well, men. I've even seen feminists on the internet complaining about their sons merely asking them to make a sandwich. Not even rudely, might I add.

I believe in equal rights, but I don't go with many hardcore feminists like this. Not saying that everyone who believes in feminism are like this, but some are. Maybe you misunderstood my comment?

I don't think rape has anything to do with what a woman's wearing, actually. I bet if there was a case study, it'd show that what the woman was wearing did not increase or decrease her chances.

I think the use of the word rape in this article gave people like you, those who'd gladly stifle the opinions of others “for their own good,” an opportunity to blow it out of proportion.

What I'm saying, and how I interpret Chelsea's article, is that women who want more respect should dress in such a way that men and other women give them more respect. The responsibility for rape will always be on the rapist, as the responsibility for robbery will always be on the robber, but all things being equal, if you want me to treat you in a certain way, in your case DEFERENTIALLY, then dress in a way that makes me believe you are worthy of that treatment.

Otherwise, fuck you. If you wear a mini-skirt, I have the right to look at you like a woman wearing a mini-skirt. If you are wearing clothing that draws my attention, I have the right to give you that attention. What you are wearing will very much influence the way you are treated in this and all societies. Is it ridiculous? Well, does it fucking matter? It's reality.

And it'd be “disrespectably,” which isn't a word, but then again you're so much smarter than me and everything.

So men are nice normal decent humans UNTIL the moment they are “provoked” by inappropriate attire–and then they turn into rape-machines with no control over themselves? What a strange sad little world you live in, I can't tell if you have a lower opinion of women or men from this line of thinking.

Okay, how about this, Mrs. Author? I walk into a bank to get some money. I have a cross-hairs tattooed onto my shoulder (for those who don't know what that is, it's the aiming guide you see when you look into a sniper scope. We'll call it a target for simplicity's sake.) The front doors suddenly swing open and five masked men walk in with guns. Everyone gets on the floor. They take the money, and one of them looks at me before leaving and, fully conscious of his actions, shoots me in the shoulder, right smack dab in the middle of the target tattoo.

Whose fault would it be that I got shot? Is it the man's fault for consciously pointing the gun and pulling the trigger? Or is it my fault for walking into the bank, with a target-tattoo showing, to get money on the day it got held up? By your logic, it'd be the latter, which makes no fucking sense.

If you find this “reasonable”, I seriously question your own ethics.

I didn't say anything about “looks” and “Cat calls” and being treated a certain way. Neither did the people of the slut walk. If you want to argue, maybe you should know what you're arguing about. If you're going to criticize the slut walk, than you should know what the slut walk is about.

And for your info there -was- a study done, and most rapists look for vulnerability, not clothing. THAT was what the slut-walk was about. Putting blame on a rape victim because she “dressed like a slut” is why these people marched. Not because they were tired of being leered at.

And you're right, “disrespectably” isn't a word, which is why I didn't use it. Disrespectfully is the right word to use. Bravo on picking that up.

I do not believe that the author of this article is attempting to defend rapists, but is rather suggesting that women who, for example, dress very provocatively whilst walking in a dangerous area and are subsequently raped should be regarded as having acted foolishly. This, to me, seems uncontroversial: if I dress in expensive clothing and walk around a deprived area of a city in the dead of night and am mugged, whilst the muggers bear absolute moral responsibility for the mugging, I would not hesitate to admit that I had been stupid acting in such a way.

I guess you didn't get the point then. And by the way, not everyone DID dress like a slut. Some even wore business suits. “Slut” is a term that is thrown at many women, despite dress-style.

I guess you didn't get the point then. And by the way, not everyone DID dress like a slut. Some even wore business suits. “Slut” is a term that is thrown at many women, despite dress-style.

Well, if she ever said that someone's choice of clothing “made them responsible” for what happened to them, you might actually have a point.

In reality, just as your exceptions above, are exceptions, women who dress loosely, get drunk, and tend to hang in bad neighborhoods are far more likely to be raped than if they wore a veil while attending church services in broad daylight. Simple common sense.

And on top of that , while I've never even dreamed of raping a woman, if I saw some of those “sluts” walking around and chose to look them over with my eyes (I'm not a catcaller) and they didn't like it? Tough cookies. You don't want to be looked at, don't advertise the merchandise.

Well, if she ever said that someone's choice of clothing “made them responsible” for what happened to them, you might actually have a point.

In reality, just as your exceptions above, are exceptions, women who dress loosely, get drunk, and tend to hang in bad neighborhoods are far more likely to be raped than if they wore a veil while attending church services in broad daylight. Simple common sense.

And on top of that , while I've never even dreamed of raping a woman, if I saw some of those “sluts” walking around and chose to look them over with my eyes (I'm not a catcaller) and they didn't like it? Tough cookies. You don't want to be looked at, don't advertise the merchandise.

“And while that does not give him the right to violate her, it also cannot be claimed that WOMEN ARE ENTIRELY INNOCENT IN THIS SITUATION.”

That's pretty much saying they were responsible for being raped. The slut walk wasn't about cat calls and looks. We can DEAL with those.

“And while that does not give him the right to violate her, it also cannot be claimed that WOMEN ARE ENTIRELY INNOCENT IN THIS SITUATION.”

That's pretty much saying they were responsible for being raped. The slut walk wasn't about cat calls and looks. We can DEAL with those.

Wow. Women's studies 101. Or the online equivalent , the Feminism 101 blog. The same one that can't even successfully define “patriarchy”.

Oh well, at least you didn't use the quasi -insulting definition of feminism “… the radical notion that women should be treated like people too” as if loving husbands, sons, and fathers ever treated them as anything but. Perhaps there's hope for you yet.

A hint: Google gynocentric feminism and google equalist feminism. Then look around you and go from there.

Wow. Women's studies 101. Or the online equivalent , the Feminism 101 blog. The same one that can't even successfully define “patriarchy”.

Oh well, at least you didn't use the quasi -insulting definition of feminism “… the radical notion that women should be treated like people too” as if loving husbands, sons, and fathers ever treated them as anything but. Perhaps there's hope for you yet.

A hint: Google gynocentric feminism and google equalist feminism. Then look around you and go from there.

Even if a woman does “want to be fucked” by someone (nothing wrong with that!), that doesn't make it acceptable for a man she doesn't want it from to force it on her.

Even if a woman does “want to be fucked” by someone (nothing wrong with that!), that doesn't make it acceptable for a man she doesn't want it from to force it on her.

You are tiresome and not worth another moment of my life. Disrespectfully is not the right word. You cannot dress disrespectfully — the use of that term inverts the fucking meaning. Disrespect is an outward treatment, not an inward one. Therefore you cannot dress respectfully or disrespectfully. Thus it is not the right word.

You are tiresome and not worth another moment of my life. Disrespectfully is not the right word. You cannot dress disrespectfully — the use of that term inverts the fucking meaning. Disrespect is an outward treatment, not an inward one. Therefore you cannot dress respectfully or disrespectfully. Thus it is not the right word.

“The policeman should not said what he said but would we have had the same reaction if it was a female officer?”

Yes. The author of this moronic article is a female and look how many of us are pissed off at her just the same!

“The policeman should not said what he said but would we have had the same reaction if it was a female officer?”

Yes. The author of this moronic article is a female and look how many of us are pissed off at her just the same!

Gamefreak:

I didn't say anything about the slutwalk, but I AM glad that it doesn't appear to be crazy like some of the other “anti street harrasment” stuff is, in the US at least. If you can handle attention, I have some respect for you.

See, the stuff I saw in the US varied from legitimate complaints to crazy complaints. You had poor scared women who had groups of several men catcalling them and following them around late at night. On the other hand, I saw a video of a girl who had been wearing a flower in her hair and was pissed because guys would say things like “that's a pretty flower”. I wanted to hurl. When “street harrasment” reaches that level it becomes a poor parody of an issue.

Anyway, seems the sluts were anti-rape. I have no issues with that, but there are times when it is NOT wise to dress “slutishly”. If mentioning that makes me a “rape apologist” than so be it.

i didn't see anything about walking in a dangerous area….in her example, she says “situations where alcohol and socialization are involved.”

This is just a sophisticated way of saying, “She were asking for it.” Why doesn't it occur to anyone that women dress sexy to feel sexy in their own right? Everyone assumes they dress sexily for others, which is just so fucking arrogant. You area woman-hating woman. Worse yet, you've bought into the patriarchal rationale behind this scenario.

Men are also adults. If the woman in a hot dress says, “No thanks” then pick your ego off the floor and go back to chilling with your bros.

And Feminism means equality for everyone–men, women, straights, gays, whites, and non-whites. Who doesn't know that???

umm she DID say someone's choice of clothing made them responsible, right at the end of the article in her example abt a person who dressed slutty/got raped: “They are being, to some degree, irresponsible.” IE they are not showing responsibility, IE the responsibility to 'some degree' rests with them.

It's disrespectful to wear red to a funeral. Therefore, it's dressing disrespectfully. It's also disrespectful to wear white to a wedding if you are not the bride, thus disrespectfully.
It's additionally disrespectful to wear various things to court and can get you held in contempt.

There are many instances in which a person can dress disrespectfully. The definition is of disrespectfully as an adverb is “characterized by, having, or showing disrespect; lacking courtesy or esteem.”

define 'respectably' pls

I totally agree with this.

The other night, I was walking outside late at night. I was wearing dark flannel pajama pants, an oversized wool coat and moccasins. I'm also 5'3'' and thin. I was pursued by two men in a car asking me to sell my body. They went as far as to follow me in their car and shove bills in my face aggressively. I do not live in a notoriously bad neighbourhood.

Was I harassed because of what I was wearing or because I looked vulnerable? Was any of this my fault? Should I have been dressed more 'respectfully?' because goddamn, I wouldn't know where to start.

This is a serious issue — assigning the 'blame' for something as terrible as harassment and rape on women for dressing a certain way is simply ridiculous.

That is absolutely terrible. I know people blame rape victims, but a child? and her father? or his father for that matter! That is just… there is no word to describe how incredibly terrible an accusation that is to make.
I'm very sorry that happened to you and I hope you have found peace.

Why are rapists allowed to do this? How can it be fair on any moral level to objectify and reduce another person to a body, a source of pleasure, a 'fuck?' When did any human being give up his/her liberty of existence to such a point?

Rape is such a terrible thing — force being exerted over another free being, selfish taking, violence, psychological trauma, etc. Assigning blame on the victim for having dressed a certain way seems so insignificant and absurd when looking at the real crime.

Perhaps if some people took a little bit of time to assess what we're really talking about here…

Everyone knows respectable women don't go out after sundown alone. Come on now.
(employing serious sarcasm, here.)

The other night, I was walking outside late at night. I was wearing dark flannel pajama pants, an oversized wool coat and moccasins. I'm also 5'3'' and thin. I was pursued by two men in a car asking me to sell my body. They went as far as to follow me in their car and shove bills in my face aggressively. I do not live in a notoriously bad neighbourhood.

Was I harassed because of what I was wearing or because I looked vulnerable? Was any of this my fault? Should I have been dressed more 'respectfully?' because goddamn, I wouldn't know where to start.

This is a serious issue — assigning the 'blame' for something as terrible as harassment and rape on women for dressing a certain way is simply ridiculous.

(Sorry for x-posting this. It's a comment to something else lower down.)

Goddamn, why was I not aware of this rule before?!

I agree with you fully, there are times when it's not wise. At the same time, that doesn't mean it's the woman's fault when some guy does the unspeakable. It seems we are on the same wavelength.

The thing is, she -was- talking about the slut walk, and she -is- saying that if a woman wears “slutty” clothing than it is partly herself to blame, which is a terrible attitude to have. That is why everyone's upset with her.

How about you argue my points rather than how I put them across?

Oh, and you're wrong by the way, and I suggest you go back to school, especially if you're telling off a university English major on how to use the fucking language.

Ha ha ha Yes indeed. I don't want to be raped so I think I'll just stay barefoot in my kitchen with my little black cat. I'll, er, skip the pregnant portion of the deal though. LMAO

(Also sarcastic)

Yeah except there was a study done and rape is almost never based on what the girl is wearing, but how vulnerable she looks.

Good article.

Similar to being robbed on the street, anyone can be a victim. However, carrying a shiny rolex watch while walking down an alley increases the chances that a criminal will decide to attack you.

The world isn't a fair place, there are a lot of evil people out there. In many cases you do not want to draw attention to yourself.

What point? You drew a ludicrous conclusion based on a statement I made. In no way did I imply or state that dressing other than respectably (“disrespectfully” not being the opposite therein) would make a woman “deserve” to be raped. This is a conclusion you drew in a venomous, misplaced attack on me which did not bother to refute my conclusive, true statement: those who dress respectably are given more respect. You walk into a job interview wearing a t-shirt and jeans, as a man, you are less likely to get the job than the girl vying who wore her best business casual. Period. You get more respect if you dress a certain way. You get less if you dress another. Chelsea Fagan was making this point, among others, and I don't agree with her that women should “take some responsibility” in rape or other acts of violence towards women.

Nonetheless, you made no point. What you did was lash out at me over nothing. Do you disagree that people who dress respectably get more respect than people who don't? If not, then there's really no discussion to be had here, because what it comes down to is that since I didn't mindlessly attack Chelsea Fagan in the same way you and others have, or even mindfully do so, then in your small mind, I must agree with everything she said.

I maintain a crucial point here, and I'm talking much less about rape than about society in general: if you want respect, your appearance is a concrete way to earn it. A huge part of how people perceive you is based on how you appear to them. If you project the appearance of self-respect, others will respect you. Societally and largely fomented by feminine voices, certain appearances are deemed “slutty.” Is this because it makes those voices uncomfortable, how sexual and (beautifully) threatening the “slut” look is? Perhaps but, again, that's besides the point.

At no time did I say that women who dress a certain way “deserve” to be raped. Obviously no woman deserves rape. Given that this is where all of your “points” are born, this misconception and vitriolic ratiocination, all I have to say to you and your points is, simply, fuck you and your English degree.

It's my opinion, that Fagan, doesn't know the first thing about women, didn't research before she wrote this, and should be ashamed of blaming women for CAUSING their own rape. Let's see if you would be saying this same thing if you were raped. You're truly, utterly, disgusting.

Objectively non-threatening, perhaps intimidatingly so. Stand a pair of 30 year old twins together. Dress one in a grey three-piece, the other in jeans and a Rage Against the Machine t-shirt. Whether you like it or not, they can both make the same divisive statement and you will, against your own will maybe, give the one in the three-piece more respect.

Respectable or respectably dressed? It's only the latter I would deign to define, and thus we see, in no uncertain times, the way my words have twisted in your mind.

Maybe, but that doesn't make disrespectful the opposite of respectable.

“Fuck you and your English degree.” What a real mature argument. It seems you entirely skipped my explanation of these arguments I brought up, being that what you're stating is NOT what the slut walk is all about. If you're condemning the slut walk, than the least you can do is argue against it's point, which had NOTHING to do with “respect”. It seems, however, that you're not listening, and thus, not worth my arguments.

If the walk WAS about respect, then yes, you'd be right, and I'd actually agree with you. But it isn't. This article was about the slut walk. The slut walk wasn't about respect in the least. We're big girls who can put up with stares and leering. That's very different from being raped, which is what the walk was about.

Also, just because we disagree with a good portion of this argument doesn't mean we're “mindlessly attacking.” I'm going to turn that argument back on you; because we disagree with what she's saying, does that make us mindless attackers? It must in your “small mind.”

Now if you'll excuse me, I have some video games to play. I'd say “fuck you” as well, but I don't want to seem as vulgar as someone who'd actually insult someone over having an education, something you obviously lack. Especially if your argument is that I can't refute your claim because “Respectable” doesn't “have an opposite word.”

Exactly this. People like the author seem to forget the very important fact that rape should NOT BE ALLOWED TO HAPPEN to begin with. It shouldn't be something that happens; in telling women to learn to protect themselves, even with the best intentions, we're putting a bandaid over the problem. Rapists are the problem. Rape culture and the mentality behind the man who sees a woman as an object because she's dressing HOW SHE WANTS TO, whether or not that's provocatively, is the problem. No woman is the problem.

Did you even research what the Slutwalk actually was about? It's not about the “right to dress like sluts.” It's about the right to not be blamed for being raped. What you wear should not enter into the picture. NO ONE ASKS TO BE RAPED. I mean, how hard is it to get that through your thick skull? I don't care if you are a stripper, a prostitute, or a party girl, NO ONE DESERVES TO BE RAPED.

You are absurd, and should be ashamed for writing this article.

This is written by a 22-year-old girl who lives a privileged life. Let's keep that in perspective. If you've looked at her tumblr you know that she is living in Paris, feigning some humbly bourgeoisie lifestyle, making fun of everything that she wants to be, pretending not to take herself seriously, sometimes trying to seem down-to-earth, but mostly finding it impossible to hide the fact that she is simply a bore. Yes, I have taken the time to look into this person, so I feel that I can pontificate upon the type of person that she is/seems to be with relative accuracy. She clearly does not employ the same method of research in her articles, deciding instead that her awesome and winsome, one-of-the-bros opinions is enough to back up the fucking crazy-ass statements that she makes.

Her lack of empathy, her hyperbolic style of writing, and her belief that she is so causticly witty and so effortlessly smart that she can proclaim anything she wants and know it as truth without any fore or afterthought, all indicate that she has a lot to learn. I suspect she may look back on her essays a few years down the road and feel slightly embarrassed because, fuck, she didn't know as much as you thought she knew. Fuck, she's not as cute or smart as you thinks.

Fuck. She may find that she sort of sucks.

I wouldn't get too worked up about this little girl's opinions.

Also, from having read over her work for the last half an hour, I can already formulate in my head what her response to this might be. Something really clever like, “I may “suck” but you are internet-stalking me!” – she seems to think she is liked in the virtual realm….I simply had nothing better to do.

Missing the point much.

lol it must be so hard being a guy, so oppressed by the angry wimminz. bitches never shut up do they?

“women who dress loosely, get drunk, and tend to hang in bad neighborhoods are far more likely to be raped than if they wore a veil while attending church services in broad daylight. Simple common sense.”

you're missing the point. women shouldn't get raped whether they are dressed loosely or wearing a veil. The fact that we live in a culture where what a woman is wearing can somehow cancel out her right to a life free from sexual violence, and sexual harassment even, is messed up. It show us that this world still isn't equal, and we've got a long way to go.

“…are far more likely to be raped than if they wore a veil while attending church services in broad daylight.”

What about those poor choir/altar boys?

While I understand your sentiment, you totally misunderstood the concept of the walk. In addition, you're further perpetuating the reason the walk was created in the first place. Slut shaming is predicated on the belief that women who are sexually assaulted are those who dressed provocatively and as a result, the men who attack them are believed to be acting on their natural urges. I call bullshit because it provides no reason when women who are dressed homely or those beyond society's interpretation of attractive are sexually harassed and assaulted as well. I can only imagine the following conversation in the courtroom:

Defendant: “She enticed me!”
DA: “How did she entice you? Was she wearing any provocative clothing or excessive makeup? Did she make any gestures to you?”
Defendant: “No, she was dressed conservatively and she did not make eye contact. But I could tell that she's a wildcat inside hiding her goods away for me to find.”

The fact of the matter is that while most men will go away if you press on hard enough there are those that don't, but when they sexually harass or assault any woman and they are caught, the public perception is more inclined to believe that the woman deserved it, no matter if she's 11 or 40, especially when the news comes out about her attire. I was once sexually assaulted on the bus when I was 17 when coming home from school. I had bad acne, wore no makeup, and clothes that made me look like a shapeless buffoon. Did I want the assault? Did I deserve the assault? No. Did the man press on anyway until I got off and was I prepared to walk to the police station if he followed me? Yes.

I'm 21 now and I live in Boston. I get catcalls and hit on by men no matter my attire and appearance. I won't bother to get into the details but you shouldn't hinder your attire and your social activities involving alcohol ( or advise the readers to do the same) out of fear.
I do agree however about the need for some common sense.

My advice:
-Go home after a party with friends, not a guy.
-If you think you're being followed or you're being sexually harassed, hail a cab or go to an establishment which is open. If you're at the club or bar, talk to the staff. They'll have security escort him out. At a party, talk to the people who planned it. The main point is not to go about this alone, but seek outside help when necessary.
-If you can't get away, discuss a disturbing topic such as spending a day in the anatomy lab of Johns Hopkins Med school and watching med students cut up a human cadaver( true story!) or punching a swing partner freshman year in the face ( and leaving out the part about it being an accident).
-If a guy takes you home and tries to have sex with you and you don't want to, mention your “crabs” (they get into the hair follicle even if you're shaved!) and ask if it'll be a problem, then get into the gory details.
- Morning after regrets? Think you've been sexually assaulted but you're aren't entirely innocent because you were drunk? I've been there. Do what you feel you need to do and go for it. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
-Take self defense classes.
-Embrace whatever you like to wear and do it without fear of the neighborhood and remember to carry pepper spray. I recommend the keychain ones- they're cute!

Her lack of empathy, her hyperbolic style of writing, and her belief that she is so causticly witty and so effortlessly smart that she can proclaim anything she wants and know it as truth without any fore or afterthought, all indicate that she has a lot to learn.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Excuse you, Fagan. Way to victim-blame. Why don't you re-examine your mindset and then write a REAL article with a valid point about the Slutwalk.

There is an (obviously) HUGE difference between being cat-called/leered at on the street and being raped or sexually assaulted. Yes, provocative clothes may draw attention from men, but they don't increase the chance of getting raped necessarily… Consider that in many rape cases either a.) the perpetrator was a close relation to the victim, and had obviously been assessing them as a target regardless of clothing and b.) many rapists sometimes don't even recall the clothing the woman was wearing. For goodness sake, even 80 year old women have been victims of rape and sexual assault! I doubt those particular women were dressed in any way that could be considered slutty.

Bottom Line: This justification of rape can be used to argue a similar justification of homicide: you weren't wearing body armor when you went outside today, so you made yourself a target for gunmen or a stabbing. Doesn't that sound logical?

since the commenting on fagan's extremely offensive stance, seems to do very little in the world that she lives in, a world where she claims rape is HUMAN NATURE ,evidenced in her “defense” that she posted on tumblr (where she also has a nice post on her distaste toward the way colored women present themselves through poetry):
“3. Rape is not societal. It has existed everywhere since the dawn of time, when it was just called sex. We may want to PC ourselves into thinking that we create rape out of a “culture of acceptance” but that is ridiculous. No one created rape except mother nature, when she made us human, and made men evolutionarily inclined to spread his seed to as many woman as possible. This does not justify rape, nor does it imply that all men are inherently rapists—most can easily control their urges. But to act as though we invented rape by being too anti-woman in our society is absurd.”

I just wanted to include the criticism of your overall writing style. i don't even understand why you're published on thought catalog, all political differences aside, your writing prose/style/editing is fucking horrendous .

Hey, you stupid bitch, if there's anyone here whose reading comprehension is laughable, it's you.

Shut up, misogynist, before you die lonely, sucking your own dick.

right? she apparently hates women of color and fat people too (in her incredibly obnoxious article about traits she looks for in a boyfriend) in addition to rape victims.

this person is a complete joke. she's elitist, racist, misogynist… the list could go on.

So instead of challenging rape culture, stereotypes and sexism women should run a risk-scenerio when they dress in the morning. We should look down and not make I contact on the street to stay safe? What the Fuck? And what is a slut? What particular clothing choices tread the line between attractive and slut? Do you have some sort of meter or vector scale? So if I casually decide to go up to a shirtless man playing basketball and stick a dildo up his ass can I claim that his shirtlessness enticed me and thus he was asking for it? Please keep you sexist, un-researched, ignorant opinions to yourself.

Having re-read it, I do concede the last two sentences are problematic. However, they also don't go with what she explicitly says in the rest of the post, thus it would have been nice if she had explained what she meant.

I mean her entire post repeatedly claims that dressing sluttishly does not excuse a rapist, and since her last two sentences seem to violate that, I prefer to believe she was trying to say something else that she worded improperly.

Having re-read it, I see that now.

However that is probably not what she MEANT when the whole post is considered. Problem is, rape is such an emotional issue that people are focusing only on the last two sentences or thereabouts and ignoring the rest of the post.

Women get raped wearing sweatpants. Women get raped wearing winter coats and rain boots. Women get raped, catcalled, harassed no matter what they are wearing. Grandmothers get raped. Children get raped. It doesn't matter what they're wearing.

The reason clothing doesn't matter? Rape is NOT ABOUT SEX. It's about the rapist exerting power over. They look for people who are vulnerable, NOT people who are dressed slutty. Rapists do not rape for the pleasure that having sex with a beautiful women brings them. They rape as an act of power.

This article is sadly, horribly misguided.

First of all, let's nevermind the fact, that it's so rare that people get raped for what they're wearing. Let's forget for a moment, that slut can be used against anyway, no matter what you're wearing. Also, let's forget the fact that this author also doesn't seem to know what 'sex-workers' or sorry, let's use her language 'prostitutes' dress like, since most of the ones I know, and I know quite a few don't dress all that provocatively. So forgetting all of that, let me run a scenario by you.

A 17 year old gay teen, not long out of the closet. Has never known another gay man or woman in his life., and craves to be a part of the community. He's wearing clothing that he thinks gay men wear, for it's what he's seen in the media, and on shows like QAF, on news coverage of the Pride parade, and in magazine publications like XY.

Tight lycra shirts, tight sparkly jeans, he's coloured his hair so blonde that it's white. He's created himself into a twink, a young skinny sexy gay boy. Something that he learned was the way he needed to be to be accepted by the community. To be a part of the community.

He starts reaching out to other gay people, the only way he can figure out how. The internet.

He makes friends with one man, they've chatted for a while. He was kind and listened to this kids problem. The man asks to meet the teen for coffee. So they meet for coffee and they talk, and the teen is ecstatic, “I'M MEETING A GAY PERSON FOR THE FIRST TIME EVER!” He made sure he wore his gayest (read: tightest and provocative clothing) because he wanted to impress this person.

The meeting was great, the man asks the teen if he wants a ride. The teen says sure, thinking he can trust this man, and it's fine. “But it's a nice summer's day” the man said, “let's go for a drive.”

The man parked on a out of the way country road, the man told him “I want to be your first kiss.” The teen hesitated, the man joked, “Well it's a long walk back to town, and you'd probably get gay bashed looking like that if you did.”

Want to guess how the story ends?

I got to tell you, it's a wonderful introduction into a world of sex, something that's suppose to be beautiful and wonderful and fantastic.

For gay men and women alike, they sexual assault rates are about 1/3. For both demographics, the media and society dictates to them what they need to do to be attractive. To be wanted by potential partners. We need to look our best, we need to be sexy. We also need to do this to fit in. Also sometimes, we want to feel sexy, we want to feel like we're pushing the boundaries a bit with our clothing, we want to be provocative. Just because we want to feel sexy and provocative doesn't mean we'll sleep with the first man that offers. It also doesn't mean we'll do it all. Sometimes, when we, or I guess I should say I, dress like that, we do it for ourselves. We should have the right to do that, and not be responsible for someone else's criminal behaviour. Of course we're not blaming the victim here right? So we should feel foolish. Well that insinuates partial blame, and you're telling survivors that they should be guilty for being victimized.

In the real world I live in, that's what we should be working towards. We shouldn't have to dialogue on victim blaming like this, because we, as intelligent responsible adults should know better. If a woman, or gay man, goes out, dressed so 'slutty' that it leaves nothing to the imagination, then they should have, no scratch that, they HAVE the right to do that with out having to feel shame, without having to feel foolish, if they get raped.

Based on what you are saying, I will not dye my hair again, because I know I get more attention as a blond. I will not get my nails done because they may make me seem provocative. I'm all for not wearing a bra, because instead of appearing to have beautiful perky tits, that get attention, I feel more comfy and safe au natural! And I will stop wearing tight fitting clothing and button my shirt to the neck! You sir, are a genius!

McDonald's was sued for making people fat, I will then sue Bebe for selling me a hot dress that I got raped in! Brilliant!

So instead of challenging violence culture men should stay out of dark alleyways and strange neighborhoods at night. We should lock our doors and use porch lights. We should always be sure not to drink too much, and we should make sure that we travel in groups and avoid groups of strangers on deserted streets.

Hmm. I already do all that, and there are no protests for me. Men are at far greater risk of violence and death on the streets than women, heck of violence and death in general, yet not one single feminist woman will help us “take back the night”. That's because I'm responsible not only for the handful of violent and depraved men who victimize women, but the handful of depraved and violent men who victimize me.

Thanks, feminism!

There's a higher percentage of getting rape, catcall, harass etc etc if you're wearing a slutty outfit.

If you read what I wrote, I wasn't talking about rape at all, merely that there are certain social codeas and customs we are all aware of. That does not make them right, and that does not mean we shouldn't fight to change them if they undermine our rights as an individual.

Rape is always, wholeheartedly and categorically wrong. There is absolutely no discussion on that matter and I agree with everyone's comments to the effect that it is both nonsensical and crassly insensitive to imply that the victim is at all at fault in any instance of rape. But that is not what I was talking about when I spoke of “certain ways of dressing, speaking and behaving that are universally recognised and that are almost guaranteed to provoke certain reactions from others.” Instead, I was attempting to steer the discussion away from rape and towards a more general social point. Perhaps I should have been clearer on that matter.

NOPE.

Yeah, you GET that straw man, Clarence W!

Why don't you spend some time looking into the MANY AND VARIED reasons why those violence statistics might exist? Let me start you off: it's not because men as a gender have been historically subjugated! So I guess drawing a comparison between women being raped and violence between/against men might be a little silly. Maybe? Maybe!

What are you basing that on? Your general ~gut feeling?

“All rape victims are over the age of 18.”
well considering i was 5 and only turned 18 last week i think its pretty impossible
so no it has nothing to do with how you dress, what you say, what you do when youre out, where you go out.
it has to do with the people who just think that they can fuck up someones life for no reason

how does one determine who is vulnerable and who is not? could it be how they appear? How they act?

Solanin:

I'm afraid I'm not going to let you try to work your “rape culture” voodoo and pretend that men benefit whenever women are raped or that violence towards men doesn't matter unless its done by females.

Rape is a crime. Assault is a crime. Either you care about reducing crimes, or you care about only reducing your own specific fetish. A victim of crime is a victim of crime. If you believe some victims are more worth than others…
Well in that case, fuck you.

Since you put it into quotes, where does this article say that all rape victims are over the age of 18??

Okay little suburban girl,
I have gone out looking like a bum before just to go to the store, And i got FOLLOWED HOME by a man.
I have been out dressing my usually over-sized clothes, and have been propositioned for sex be a man in his car. It has nothing to do with DRESSING LIKE A SLUT. Its has to do with me being judged because me my sex and sexuality.

The reason why these “MEN” do this shit because people write dumb and ignorant articles like this.

Stop being an enabler.

Just because we are pretty doesn't mean we should have to “deal with” cat calls and blatant disrespect. And Rape is NEVER a thing about sexual pleasure, you can pay for that if you REALLY were aching for it. Its about control, women in business suits have been kidnapped and raped.

Its all a matter of respect.

Men dont have to worry about being raped, or cat called. They dont have to change how they're dressed to avoid attention. So of course they blame it one us.

Grow up honey.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Disempowered men? WOMEN HAVE TO BE ANGRY BECAUSE OF YOU. The only reason we are angry to you is because we are fighting a flawed system that you believe in. Its the same thing with the black Americans and the civil rights. You have a voice, but all your gonna do is speak out about how women need to stop fighting for respect.

If you ant to use your voice, speak out for the right things. Basic human rights and respect.

Hahahaha holy shit, I can't even take you seriously. “Rape culture” voodoo? Seriously? Men benefit from women being raped? NO. RAPISTS, if anyone, “benefit” (what-the-ever-loving-fuck) from women (and men, and children) being raped. RAPISTS benefit from our society (culture) putting the onus on the victims to prevent rape.

You'll notice that we don't wag our fingers at male victims of rape for exposing too much ankle, or say that he was “asking for it” when he wore that tank top. THAT is rape culture–it is a completely different set of horrible expectations for women compared to other groups when it comes to this issue.

Did I say anywhere in my response that I didn't care about reducing crime? That I didn't care about assault? That one victim of a crime is worth more than another? NO. I said that it was silly (i.e. “stupid as shit”) to compare rape and non-sexual assault in the way you did. Rape and non-sexual assault are both violent and abhorrent but they have INCREDIBLY DIFFERENT causes, surrounding factors, statistics, etc. By taking these important details into account in a discussion (as opposed to saying BAD THINGS ARE BAD WHY ARE YOU ROTTEN FEMINISTS TALKING SO MUCH ABOUT THIS ONE BAD THING SHUT UP ALREADY), we can educate and enlighten each other and hopefully, ideally, make the world a better and safer place for everyone.

You definitely missed the point. The rally wasn't about the “right to dress like a slut”. The point was that it doesn't matter what we wear–we'll still get treated like meat and it's wrong. It's about the right to not get harassed, regardless of what we wear, and to not have to justify how bad what happened to us was by itemizing what we were wearing. I hope you never have to understand first hand what I'm talking about.

Here are some photos I took at the rally. I hope you'll look at them and understand how subjective “slut” is.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/6…

We live in a society that teaches 'don't get raped' above 'don't rape'. Everyone, teach the young men in your life that look up to you what it is to respect a woman and her rights, or this will never change.
as for you Fagan.. there's something wrong with you!!
maybe you need to sit in on some victim support groups!!

women are animals? had me fooled. you can restrain yourself? good for you! some women can not just like some men. the main point here is that OPs post was flawed literally and logically.

shut up, misandrist, before I make you suck my dick. lol

I'm gay and women are inferior.

What we wear can make a statement about ourselves but its just as true that it simply reflects the expected dress code of where we spend out time. Work, school, shopping, partying – each setting needs a “look”. If a young woman dresses up to go out dancing, seems appropriate for her to look as hot as she can. If she's going shopping or to school, she has some latitude in how she presents herself.

I'm not going to get into the right or wrong of how the fashion industry capitalizes on women and their self esteem etc. It's what it is and I'm not sure it's really relevant to the the point I want to make. To me it's quite simple. Human kind, men and women alike, long to bond with another human being. To do so we make ourselves appear as attractive as possible regardless of the realm. There are countless examples in the animal world where one or the other sex has colorful plumage, manes etc so I'm going assume this tendency of women to appear attractive is natural and normal. Myself, I love love love dressing sexy, even if these days it's because of my bra and panties. I love it even more when someone notices.

How the world or in this case, men, respond to hot women is generally predictable but also equally subjective. Among the responses here, many of the women have stated that they weren't sexually dressed but simply going about their business when they've received unsought attention. I've been queered a time or two by cat-calls, although going by the laughter that follows the past few years the bastards are now just mocking my aging, fat assed self.

“Certain ways of dressing, speaking and behaving… are almost guaranteed to provoke.” I take issue with your use of “provoke.” Provoke has a very different meaning in terms of intent than evoke. I argue that women dress to “evoke” positive reactions not to “provoke” action. I don't generally quibble over semantics but to me your use of “provoke” supposes, intent, wrong doing and judgement bringing the focus back to women being responsible when very clearly it matters not how we look or what we're doing. We can not assume the kind of responsibility you're words claim we have in this.

Solanin:

Well, then I suppose you are entirely unaware of just what people say about men, even men who commited non-violent crimes or who in some cases are even innocent (well, he must have done something!) when they get raped in prison.

And unlike outside, rape in prison often takes place over periods of months and years again and again and again.

Is there a rape culture against males?

Hmmmmph. I have problem with the whole concept esp. when I see it selectively applied.

Moving on, my point was that *I* personally have to take these measures to protect myself. These measures that supposedly so oppress women, do not supposedly oppress me. You see, I'm the wrong sex.

What were you complaining about again?

Way to take a debate about cultural pressure on women to take responsibility for other people raping them, and make it a pity party for not being all about YOOOOOOOU.

News flash: People can care about rape-culture and also care about the institutionalized rape that happens in prison. People can care about sexual assault and also care about minimizing other types of crime.

Just because this piece is about rape culture and victim blaming doesn't mean the people reading and commenting on it don't care about lowering the crime rate.

Sexual assault and B&Es happen for different reasons.
Murder and DWIs happen for different reason.
Armed robbery and battery happen for different reasons.

To ignore this and claim the right way to care about lowering the rate of sexual assault is to lower the crime rate in general is disingenuous at best and reprehensible at worst.

1 in 6 women will be sexually assaulted during their lifetime, and the fact that you're complaining that being concerned about rape isn't fair to men just demonstrates how deeply ingrained misogyny is in our culture.

The issue that you fail to take into account, Ms. Fagan, is that the men who commit things like rape are, for the most part, fully capable human beings in their own right, and as such have the same responsibility for their actions as women do. You seem to be ascribing to men the inability to control themselves – women are, in your scenario, given the responsibility for men's actions, because men are incapable of taking said responsibility.You are infantilizing men, and by doing so you take away their humanity. Men are people too. That being said, you also fail to take into account the fact that rape is, most frequently, about power, and not about sexual excitement. This means that women in loose jeans and sweatshirts and women in short skirts are equally good targets for rape. This is not about how attractive you are. Rape is about control.

Several nations have taken the same stance that you have – that women are so sexually appealing that their rapes are, at least in part, their own faults. These governments, including Pakistan, have been known to imprison and to sentence women to death when they come forward about their rapes. Often, the woman and her rapist are punished with equal severity, as sex outside of marriage is illegal. The woman is punished because she must have been asking for it, right?

If you truly believe that what a woman wears should be taken into account when she is raped, then I suggest that you move to Pakistan or the United Arab Emirates.

“a victim of a crime is a victim of a crime”

HAHA DIDN'T I JUST SEE YOU POST ON CHELSEA'S TUMBLR THAT TO COMPARE VIOLENT RAPE WITH DATE RAPE/A RAPE WHERE THE RAPIST WAS CAUGHT “IS DISGUSTING?!”

dude. check your privilege. rape is rape–a victim is a victim, no one, regardless of gender, deserves to to get raped. if someone is dressing “like a prostitute,” if someone IS a prostitute, they have the right to say no.

You're free to do whatever you want. It's your life.

Looks are only one factor. Where you put yourself is arguably a bigger factor. Dressing up and going to a party where everyone is responsible is one thing. Dressing up and walking alone at night in a dangerous neighborhood or getting drunk at a frat party is something different.

At the end of the day, if your attitude is that what you wear has no impact on the arousal of psychologically disturbed predators than good luck to you!

she does.

“the most compelling reason to put at least some of the responsibility on women here”

it's even in the article blurb, dude.

No dumbass, you saw me saying that comparing a violent unsolved stranger rape with a sexual assault (not rape, dumbass) where the perps were punished is disgusting.

In other words, justice was done for one and not the other. You can't even begin to compare that. Now fuck off.

For the most part women are not the one's perpetrating violent crimes against men or women! Men have really corned the market on this one! It is also male police offers who feel men cannot be raped or allege the victim is homosexual asking for it as well. Feminism is not to blame for violent crimes perpetrated against men! Do you think is an angry feminist who sends men to rob you in dark alleys? Try again!

Ugly Scientist?
Well, that certainly is an ugly comment.
Saying that you don't have to worry about one but not the other is kinda disingenuous when you have
A. A group of people who politicize a certain crime or type of crime and try to make all males responsible for it – sex crimes
B. A group of people with institutionalized power (feminists) who have never officially claimed to have solved or even amoleriated a problem they've supposedly been working toward (legal changes started in the 1970's) for nearly 40 years. How many BILLIONS has society spent on programs of rape prevention and /or incarcaration. Training of victims advocates and retraining of judiciary?

How many dollars have any of you ever spent on, or insisted be spent on REDUCING VIOLENT CRIME in general? Next to none, because despite your claims that you just want sexual equality all your real activism and work is focused on women at least in part because you blame an invisible patriarchy for everyone's woes.

Once again, I have to do everything these women have to do. I even sometimes leave my glasses at home if I don't absolutely need them as they make me “look” more vulnerable. I change my style of clothing depending on where I'm going, not just on what feels “nice” to me or sometimes not even depending on what venue I'm going to. There's at least a few times I've had to make safety paramont and the way to do that is to blend in.

But men don't have to DEAL with this you see, because supposedly we are privileged and we don't know what its like to have to fear violence on the streets or sexual violence (ask any normal man if he wants to go to prison and see the fear)anywhere. I've won about half the fights I've been in, but I never can legally carry a weapon and I know I am not defeating any gang. Why feminist women feel they should have the right to any more safely than I do, I really don't know. And considering their lack of empathy for anyone unlike themselves and refusal to take responsibility for any part in the perpetration of that which they claim to hate, I really don't give a fuck anymore. I've been burned out by your intellectual dishonesty and also that you've tried the same kind of shame and blame methods again and again over the past 40 years and they never work. What's the definition of insanity again?

“Well, then I suppose you are entirely unaware of just what people say about men, even men who commited non-violent crimes or who in some cases are even innocent (well, he must have done something!) when they get raped in prison.”
THIS. IS. RAPE. CULTURE.

a culture in which rape is used as a “punishment” for someone that has done wrong, or in order to “fix” them, is a rape culture.the fact that anyone's behavior is influenced by their “fear of the promise of being raped in jail” more so then other influences makes our society a society in which rape culture runs rampant.

“rape” is not a term solely for females, i feel that you are arguing that all of the women protesting the comments on this board, are solely interested in female rape, or that “rape culture” is all about females. Rape culture affects everyone, men,women, children, everyone.

No, she merely condemns women for being lax about looking after their own safety.

So do I.
And I have to do it all by myself, so please don't cry me a river about any supposed privilege I have. Life is dangerous for just about everyone.

If woman can't dress up like sluts because they are 'asking for it', then I think we should also criticize men who wear nice suits and then get robbed — it's clear they are also 'asking for it'. Similarly, it's clear that people who drive nice cars who get car jacked are also 'asking for it'.

The world is base and mad and vulgar and moronic and mean and sleazy and inhospitable and rude and crass and tawdry, as well as doomed, polluted, and banal. I’m really tired of it. Can’t we start another one somewhere else where the Yahoos won’t be allowed to go?

GoldPavement:

“A rape culture is a complex of beliefs that encourages male sexual aggression and supports violence against women. It is a society where violence is seen as sexy and sexuality as violent. In a rape culture, women perceive a continuum of threatened violence that ranges from sexual remarks to sexual touching to rape itself. A rape culture condones physical and emotional terrorism against women as the norm.

In a rape culture both men and women assume that sexual violence is a fact of life, inevitable as death or taxes. This violence, however, is neither biologically nor divinely ordained. Much of what we accept as inevitable is in fact the expression of values and attitudes that can change.”

http://finallyfeminism101.word…

Now if you click the link you will find a bit about how men can rape other men (though not about how women can rape men because to those ignoramuses that never happens) but mixed in with a few truths, you'll find the same mixture half truths and hysteria in which this subject has been wrapped. I mean stuff like this:

“…Rape culture is treating straight sexuality as the norm. ” Even if it IS the norm? I mean, really, what does the sexuality of the vast majority of the human race have to do with rape culture? Lesbians or gays can't rape? I personally know one that was by another one.

Anyway the point is the whole concept of “rape culture” is a multifaceted unprovable mess where a bunch of behaviors the author doesn't approve of are linked together in a mishmash of cultural, biological, and legal artifacts that don't apparently have any common feature, while things that might point away from such a conclusion (such as the harshness with which rape is punished and how easily someone can be ruined by a mere accusation) are forgotten about or ignored. I mean it's not as if people haven't been killed prior to trial because it was claimed they raped someone.

And just like the Supreme Court can’t define porn but knows it when it sees it…

I guess it makes sense that one of the least justifiable lines of thinking ever to emerge from our Supreme Court would be used to prop up an argument like this. After all, weak minds think alike as well, no?

Actually, yes.

If I was going into a bad neighborhood, I wouldn't wear a nice suit.

Also, I don't think anyone is criticizing these women for dressing like sluts. They're simply saying that dressing like a slut paints the picture that, well, you're a slut. And everyone knows sluts are more open to casual sex, so they are more likely to be approached and cat-called by men.

Also no one is shifting the blame from the rapists to the raped. If you commit a rape, you go to jail, I'm pretty sure that's as clear a signal as possible that rape is unacceptable. I'm no law historian, but I've never heard of any rapist who got off scot free by saying “your honor, she was dressed like a slut”.

I'm not sure what else it is that feminists want, police escorts for girls' night out?

And as per the right to dress like a slut: What's the point of dressing like a slut again?

There was that judge in Italy who argued that it wasn't rape because the woman was wearing blue jeans. I think his reasoning was that a man could not take off a woman's jeans without the woman's help, so it must not have been rape. This is pretty close to your scenario. A man got off of a rape charge because “your honor, she was dressed in blue jeans.”

So rapists don't always go to jail for rapes they commit.

Where do you draw the line? Women should just leave the house in burkas all the time?

I'm betting radically religious folk and I have differing opinions on what defines “slut.” I'm betting that cop who originally spoke on this and I also have differing opinions on it. What one sees as slutty is equally reflective on the viewer as it is the apparent “slut.”

Your point about not going into a bad neighborhood dressed in a suit isn't taking real life into consideration. What if you were late for an important appointment or had a final exam and going through a bad neighborhood was the shortest route? Are you saying you'd go the long way around because you believe that if something bad happened, it would be your fault? I could easily find other examples if you need them.

In fact, people are “shifting the blame from the rapists to the raped”, as evidenced by Ms. Fagan's claim that “… it also cannot be claimed that women are entirely innocent in this situation”. Aside from this statement that very clearly indicts women for their rapes, the concept of labeling a victim's wear as “slutty”, as did the policeman who kicked this whole thing off, is in and of itself a symptom of victim blaming. The term is, in essence, a derogatory word – it's about women who step outside of what is considered to be the social norm. Of course, this social norm has a nebulous quality to it – someone who expects you to be wearing a burqa will likely consider a calf length skirt “slutty”. Blanket statements about a victim's dress being “slutty” are thus victim blaming in that they refer to a vague, subjective quality, and thus reflect a negative judgement about the actuality of the “victimhood” of the victim. The idea that “sluts are more open to casual sex” seems to make it less of a crime to assault them.

“Your point about not going into a bad neighborhood dressed in a suit isn't taking real life into consideration. What if you were late for an important appointment or had a final exam and going through a bad neighborhood was the shortest route? Are you saying you'd go the long way around because you believe that if something bad happened, it would be your fault? I could easily find other examples if you need them. “

How about one example of a situation where dressing like a slut is necessary? (apart from being a sex worker)

“There was that judge in Italy who argued that it wasn't rape because the woman was wearing blue jeans. I think his reasoning was that a man could not take off a woman's jeans without the woman's help, so it must not have been rape. This is pretty close to your scenario. A man got off of a rape charge because “your honor, she was dressed in blue jeans.”

And OJ got away with murder because “the glove don't fit”. The guilty don't always go to jail for crimes they commit, that's life.

Your question presumes there needs to be a justification for a term you've yet to define other than to compare dressing like a “slut” to prostitution. If my idea of sexy is your idea of slutty then following your reasoning, Reason, I'd be a whore to you. Let's assume I am a whore, given your reasoning, it's unlikely you'd respect anything I'd have to say. Seriously, if you can't think of a single good reason for dressing to attract the opposite sex, then I see no good Reason to continue this.

Are sex workers not allowed to be rape victims now? It happens. If it's not consensual, it's not consensual. Period.

Forget freedom of expression, too. You asked earlier what feminists want. Feminists want women to be treated as men's equals, which means that they can wear what they like and look up when they're walking down the street and not worry about being raped or otherwise assaulted for it. You ask “What's the point of dressing like a slut again?” The point isn't what's at issue here. The fact that people ask questions like that is the issue. You seem to think that dressing like a slut must indicate that you are “easy”, or want to give the impression that you are. Dressing like a slut is, as I mentioned previously, an entirely subjective descriptor. Why someone is wearing something shouldn't be an issue with rape victims, just as why someone was driving a small, easily damaged car isn't an issue when they're hit by another vehicle.

i read the shorter version published on their tumblr before i saw this one, it was on there

This analysis is faulty because the 'neighborhood' for a scantily clad woman is everywhere. Women can get criticized for 'asking for it' if they are dressed provocatively anywhere.

I think it is very difficult for men to understand how women feel threatened by men — the disparity in physical strength makes a huge difference in one's threat perception. Basically, men are about twice as strong as women.

Here's a hypothetical for you. How comfortable would a man be walking around 400 pound creatures who wanted to have sex with men and made grunting noises when they felt desire?

ha! anonymous commentator over here suggests justices of the us supreme court have weak minds. who are you, stephen hawking?

I think a lot of people who are reading this article are taking the slut walk event too literally. Saying things like “What's the point of the slut walk?” The point is not to “dress like a slut”, but to be treated equally as men regardless of aspects like physical appearance or choice on how a woman dresses. The slut walk's purpose is to make people, both men and women, realize that there are many double standards out there – and not merely dealing with choice in how a woman dresses and the blame that gets put on them if they are raped. Why should a woman be judged on her clothing while men get to wear what they want without being labeled as a “slut?” Why should any person regardless of their gender put any level of blame on a rape victim (also regardless of gender, but unfortunately more often women) for the way they dress or appear? And besides a person or woman's choice on what they wear, more importantly, why should women more often then men have to worry about rape regardless of the way they dress or act?

umm, so those “ladies” walking the streets in toronto were protesting what, exactly?
that it's perfectly appropriate to wear stockings and no skirt out in public? because deep down, ladies really WANT to go outside in their underwear or less? how does this prove their point??
as a woman, i was highly embarrassed and offended by this “slut walk”. it was visually distasteful, disgraceful and downright disgusting!
and i don't care about WHAT you're protesting when you're dressed like THAT.
use your brains, girls, not your exposed cleavage, to send a message.

What these women want is to be able to live and dress freely and independently without being told that doing so will result in them “justifiably” being sexually assaulted.

ALSO, you should look into what you say before you say it. There have been many rape cases that have found the rapist not guilty because the defense has attacked the victim's character and/or sexual history.

Its completely fucking WRONG and it happens.

You really love the letter “D,” huh?

By the way, you basically just said that women who dress like however any given rapists defines “slutty,” that they deserve what they got. Hi, you're part of the problem!

come ON, seriously 'objectively'? How could you ever determine that. Where i work in silicon valley for example, CEOs come to work in flipflops, no one even thinks about this. They probably get MORE respect. The point is these things are constantly shifting and changing, they are incredibly subjective, and the idea that we as individuals should change the way we behave and present ourselves to accommodate the standards of people with criminal mindsets is not a good or realistic strategy to promote!

Or kids in shorts who get molested. This is just ridiculous.

You are not supporting your argument by saying this world is “real”. Just by saying the world is a tangible thing make the act of rape justified.

Let's get this straight. You were disgusted by their clothes. Do you know that a there millions of Americans who are disgusted when they see a woman having a beer? And there are millions of Americans who are disgusted when they see two men holding hands. Personally, I'm disgusted by people who are disgusted when they see two men holding hands.

Being disgusted is not a badge of honor — but it says more about you than it does about the things you find disgusting. Think about it before you counterattack.

I'm proud of what it says about me; I have value and common sense.

I wish you good luck on life's path.

I wish you good luck on life's path.

“It has existed everywhere since the dawn of time, when it was just called sex.”

She's sort of the golden mean between Phyllis Schlafly and Andrea Dworkin, isn't she?

DO please research on your own about an issue before getting so emotional, it might help your blood pressure.

A cop said “girls shouldn't dress like sluts” during a junior high school rape/violence assembly.
I think the problem was these were children, and this is a cop, basically making an EXTREEMELY FALSE correlation and using a very sex-charged and negative label.

Chill pill, please. You sound so shrill even over the internet.

You don't have value more than most people and to be honest a lot less common sense. . less common sense than myself, who bothered to look up the original reason behind this “disgusting” scene.

Like I said, watch out for your blood pressure . : P

A true troll, is one who leaves with a grin, knowing they have dropped the appropriate amount of thoughtless and selfish BS. . . self-SERVING I should say.

Hope you have a good life too, sweet protector of the values.

Thought I'd update people on why this protest happened in the first place and save people who are raging time and energy.
Its because a policeman on the job said exactly. . . “don't dress like a slut” to a bunch of underage kids.

1) He was indicating a remedy that in actuality does not work to stop rape, and this is statistically proven. . . >
2) He used the word “slut” and all that entails in front of 10-14 year old girls (junior high) Any adult should NEVER use that kind of sexist language in front of the young. ESPECIALLY A F*ING COP

That's why the protest happened, because an “upstanding” member of society goofed up and revealed his bias.
And writers jumping on the chance to seem “smart” and “realistic” like this Fagan person by default defend this cop's statement. That's really dumb.

PS I work with high school students and I would have been fired in an instant if I ever used such language.

PPS Chelsea Fagan is really dumb, I can't say that enough. I want to write a letter to her from 99% of the rest of the world's female population . . .hell men too, and it goes like this. . .

Dear Baby Chelsea,

You couldn't last a day in our shoes. . . so stop commenting on shit you don't know about.

Sincerely,
The Rest of the World

women are allowed to be sexual too. why is that 'disgusting'? I am honestly asking bc I am confused.

I agree that Chelsea Fagan is stupid, or at least incredibly naive.
That said, I hope you don't mind my hijack here, I just made a Disqus account specifically so I could make a comment now I can't get it to let me make a comment.

Dear Chelsea Fagan:
The night that I was raped I was wearing mom jeans, a nerdy or demure or whatever pink blouse and a baggy cream cardigan. I don't know if you would classify that as slutty. It is, after all, a subjective term. However, that had nothing to do with why I was raped, I was raped because the person I was on a date with did not respect my right to my body and did not stop doing what he was doing when I said “no” to him repeatedly. I was still blamed for this by people like you, Chelsea Fagan, because they were too stupid to recognize that the only person who is responsible for the actions of an individual is that individual and that individual alone.
Rape is not a sex act, it is a violent crime that can happen to anyone. It could happen to you no matter how you dress because the culture that some people were taught to live in is a culture that allows sexual violence as natural and condones acts of domination as outside of the dominator's control. A person who commits violence against a minority, regardless of that minority, is responsible for their actions and should have the self-discipline to control impulsive behaviour. No group of people should have to alter their behaviour or conduct to avoid violence nor to avoid blame for being victimized. That is what the “slut” walk was about: equality, for all people, in all matters, always. It's pretty simple.

You say….that if someone dresses up at a policeman then they should expect to get stopped and asked for directions etc or treated as a policemen….yes, however when that person points out they are dressed up (for whatever reason) it would then be safe to assume that the person would go…oh sorry, and go and find a real police men….they would not then surely DEMAND the person be a police men for them and even force them into that role using physical force, yet for a woman dressed in a 'slutty' manner you seem to be saying that when approached by someone because of this, that pointing out she is not dressed like for Him does not afford her the same treatment as she should then be aware that she maybe FORCED to become her visual representation.

Thats bullshit, yes she should expect the attention and the approach but when she says no thankyou then she also has the right to expect to be heard. Your post seems to be saying that 'if you dress like this then be aware that the poor weak minded male who is totally governed by his cock may well force you into that role and quite frankly who can blame the little chap'.

If I go out dressed in a slutty or sexy way, yes I know I will get attention but that doesn't give anyone the right to touch me or expect me to be that way for them. I am a slut for one man and one man alone and when I say no thankyou I mean it. No one has any rights over me because of the way I dress or should have their behavious excused because I had a short skirt on.

Mollyxxx

i'm praying for you :)

Dressing provocatively does peek a mans arousal, face it. It's a natural thing. As women we do know that, why else would you do it? Because you want to make a statement? What bull. When I was 21 I dressed up to go downtown to be flirted with to get those free drinks once in awhile, as women we all do it. But as a women I knew I could handle myself. I've taken self defense I had an older brother that taught me a lot on how to protect myself. If you're going to dress provocatively be prepared to be stared at that's why you're doing it right?? And if you're not, you still should be safe and remember it still could happen. What this girl was trying to say is that you have more of a chance to be picked up. THAT”S ALL!! Jeeze stop over analyzing everything. That's what's wrong with the the world. People try to analyze things to death and just end up getting mad for no reason.
Sometimes no isn't enough, you have to defend yourself. Face it that's the world we live in and always have. It's not going to change because you walked around holding up a pink sign with nothing on but tights and underwear. You just look ridiculous.

Natalia, as a rape survivor, I can firmly say that you can take all the self defense classes you want to, but you are still not going to be able to fight off a group of men who have decided that they want to force you to have sex with them. And you don't have to be wearing nothing but tights and underwear to provoke and attack like that, you can be on your way home in a safe neighborhood wearing a parka and jeans, or you can be leaving a nightclub dressed in something skimpy…but how you dress or how you act doesn't ever give anyone the right to force you to have sex with them, although Ms Fagan is clearly saying in this article it does. As a woman, I am not responsible for the actions taken by those men that night, and I am proud of the women out there who took to the streets on behalf of women like me, everywhere, to say enough is enough…stop blaming the victims for the crimes of the men who raped them.

http://www.thefrisky.com/post/…

Actually, yes, you can rape someone, say they were dressed like a slut, and then get off scott-free. You can be gang raped by over 18 adult men as an 11 year old girl and then be blamed for wearing inappropriate attire, and acting older than your age.

And the point of the slutwalk was to show that you can be wearing any outfit when you are raped, there were women there in jeans and pj's, just because the media decided they couldn't capitalize on those images doesn't mean that the only people on the slutwalk were the ones wearing slutty clothing. If I go out in a provocative outfit, it certainly does not mean that I am more open to casual sex, it means that I am feeling self confident and am wanting to wear an outfit that shows my self confidence.

What do feminists want? We want to not have to “not make eye contact, to keep your posture upright, and to keep walking.” We want to not be blamed for the actions of adults who make their own decisions independent of what we wear or how we act. As Regular_Gal said above “No group of people should have to alter their behaviour or conduct to avoid violence nor to avoid blame for being victimized.” We want the right to live free of fear.

holy stars this went viral, i'm typing this comment, adding nothing to the intellectual/moral/ethical conversation going on.

but still, it is fun, because i can.

consider this thought catalog vomit. or better, fluff to pad the heated debate. like oil on squeaky machinery, lube on a yoyo's bearings. spin on yoyo, spin on…

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing.”

This should not be confusing for anyone. Even if someone is dressed provocatively looking for sex, that doesn't mean they're looking for sex from YOU.

A woman's car gets stolen, and she calls the police. Officer Fagan shows up on the scene:

Fagan says to victim: “Well, if you're going to drive the LS, and get the platinum rims, and leather seats, and if you're going to buy it in fire red, I mean… didn't you think this would happen?”

Victim says: “What? Are you saying it's my fault my car got stolen because it's a nice car?”

Fagan: “No of course not. Not entirely. But… if you don't want this kind of thing to happen, you might want to think about buying a more modest vehicle. You know, paint it seafoam green instead of red, go with hubcaps instead of rims, try brown fabric instead of black leather. You know, a car that's not so flashy, fades into the background.”

Victim: “Okay well that's not really my style, and that's not really the point. Nobody has the right to steal my car! It's MINE!”

Fagan: “Well, yeah, I know that, but, it's just that any time you drive anywhere, you run the risk of attracting the attention of someone that's intoxicated. And, well, people really can't really help themselves from committing auto theft when they've had a few too many and your flashy red car is parked right in front of them.”

Victim: “Unbelievable. Thank you, Officer Fagan, for setting the property owners movement back forty years.”

You are very brave for your honesty. . . remember that Ms. Fagan is only 22 (although I'm sure there are smarter 22 year olds out there), and a quick glance at her twitter feed shows instantly how totally sheltered and prissy she is.

This is the most depressing thing I have ever read…

Just a point of clarification: the officer did not say this to a “bunch of underage kids”. He said it to students and professors in a “safety forum” on a university campus that has a known history of violent sexual assaults.

You have chosen to make such sweeping assumptions about what the marsh was about and who attended based on…? One photo? One article? Use your brains and go read up about it a bit more.

How about one example where raping someone is necessary? See how ludicrous that sounds?

The point is slut is SO incredibly subjective that anyone can be called a slut: a person ending their day in what many would call a 'classy' outfit in an office, a lifeguard on duty, a group of women in heels and blouses out for a drink, a queer man who is hated by others, a governor who's opponent wants to tear her reputation down. Calling someone a slut makes them one in some people's eyes. Why wouldn't you question why the insult was thrown in the first place?

“Clothes make the man” etc etc. Men dressed as gangbangers, men in suits, men in wife beaters, you draw many assumptions from people's clothing.

I understand the message of the slutwalk, and to quickly summarize it is that women (in this case the victim) should not be victimized for their lifestyle choice. That's understandable.

Unfortunately, I see far too many posters thinking that this Slutwalk means women can wear what they want and not be judged, and then backing their statements with stuff like “men don't get judged”, which is completely untrue. People judge appearances, everybody does, when I see a man in a wifebeater and beaten jeans I think hillbilly. When I see a man in a suit and tie I think businessman, when I see a woman showing more skin than clothing I think she's an empty woman who direly needs male attention.

What the officer said was horrible in it's delivery, but if you reworded what he said there would be nothing wrong with it. Telling young women to not dress provacatively to avoid rapes is a little off. But telling people to be aware that their appearance can draw unwanted attention?

I'll go put on my suit, 1000$ watch, tie and all and go walk around the Bronx at 3 AM, then we will see if you call me a dumbass once I get robbed.

Have you read any of the other comments in this thread? Rapists don't rape people based on clothing. It's about power, not insane, uncontrollable, animalistic, crazy-man urges that men simply can't control. Stop pretending you don't get it.

Maybe it should be ok to mug men who have tailored suits?
They are just asking for it.

Look, I”m just gonna go ahead and say it. Yes, being in a dangerous neighborhood, wearing provocative clothing, etc. etc. might increase your chances of being raped or otherwise sexually assaulted. Might. Statistics show that rapes occur to women wearing casual, un-sexy clothes as often as they do to women who are dressed 'like sluts'. But let's pretend for a moment that you're more likely to be raped if you're dressed in a certain way.

People don't tell the family of murder victims that their loved ones had it coming because they were just so goddamn unlikable. Being an asshole to everyone doesn't make it okay for someone to beat me up or to murder me! And dammit, being an asshole is my RIGHT. I'll be a jerk if I wanna be. I am no less of a victim if I'm rude to everyone I meet than if I am the next Gandhi.

Now, for that matter, the slut walk isn't totally about “I should be allowed to dress however the hell I please and not be considered 'asking for it',” though that is definitely part of it. It's also about the fact that ANY woman who is raped is automatically painted as a slut. Case in point? The eleven year old girl who was gang-raped by 18 different men, from 12 to 28 years old. The ENTIRE town came out against her because the rapists were star basketball players and she wore makeup and talked about cigarettes and sex on her blog. News flash. Every teen and preteen goes through a stage where they act like they're hot shit. That doesn't make them a legally consenting adult who enjoys being forced into sexual activities with 18 men at a time. But she acted older than she was, and she was out late, so she was asking for it amirite?

No one is ever 'asking for it'.

There's a big difference between making sure you are never walking alone in bad neighborhoods and making sure you are never wearing clothing that might be considered provocative. I have to do a daily wardrobe check, making certain that my skirt is never shorter than my knee, making sure that my blouse is not v-cut or scoop-neck or too form-fitting; you have to not walk in dangerous neighborhoods after dark. You have to alter your route a few blocks, or take a cab, or walk with a friend. You have options, and your modification of your behavior is only necessary in certain situations that don't crop up that often, presumably, and are over within a few minutes when they do. Me? My entire life has to be catered to rapists because you don't have the guts to hold THEM responsible instead of ME.

LOLOLOL. Victim-blaming troll is a victim-blaming troll.

As a man, I would just like to say that I do not turn into some sort of rape-machine when I've had a few beers. I am quite capable of realizing when a woman says no to me—and of backing off, as per her wishes—even if I'm drunk.

And, if I wasn't, well, that's still my fault and whatever crimes I commit while drunk are crimes that I am solely responsible for. My victims would not be responsible for my actions simply because I was drunk. To suggest otherwise defies logic, regardless of whether we're talking about something as serious as rape or as minor as petty vandalism.

Oh, hey, cool. A blatant lie. Yeah, there was never another, shorter version of this on my Tumblr–certainly not one in which I stated that “all rape victims are over the age of 18.”

Glad to see the point that this conversation has devolved to–Mission Accomplished!

http://feministing.com/2011/04…

I think I love you. Your honesty and strength is beautiful. As a fellow survivor, I want to thank you for doing what I'm still having a hard time doing – using what has happened to you to help educated others.

I also think that Miss Fagan is just really naive. The problem with being 22 (and I am only a few months away from that age myself) is that we're naive, but we're too stubborn to imagine ourselves changing. Once Chelsea meets some more people, talks to women of different background, etc., she may find she thinks differently.

Until then, though, it would be wise to not make outlandish statements on the Internet.

‎''That, to all of us, is funny and relatable.'' Speak for your self Chelsea. ''There is a constant threat, especially in concentrated urban areas, that you will be a victim at some point. I myself live in a relatively dangerous urban area where men are quite verbally forward. You learn quickly to not make eye contact, to keep your posture upright, and to keep walking. And beyond that, if you want to further increase your chances of remaining safe and flying under the radar, you do not dress like a prostitute.'' Is that for real? Oh boy, where should I start?! The point of this walk is actually to refuse this kind of speech. We are not going to dress differently cause we could get rape. We are refusing to modify our behavior, style, freedom of expression because some people cant control themselves. And just so you know Chelsea, dressing like a prostitute is not an open call to rape or even just sex. Sex workers keep the right to refuse services to anyone. And if it happens that they get rape, and it does, too often, they cant press charge because they have a criminal status in Canada. Do we want to live in a society that allows that? Do we want to keep blaming victims for being raped? NO. Not me. Thats why this walk is a must. And thats why, in less then 24hrs, more then 1000 people said NO, we wont accept it. And please Chelsea, stop perpetuating the whore stigma. It only sends two extremely wrong messages: its ok to rape slut. And they are responsible for their rape.WRONG. And we are not gonna accept it. WE ARE GOING TO GET TOGETHER AND LET EVERYONE KNOW THAT THIS KIND OF HATE AND EMPTY POSITION IS NOT WHAT WE WANT AS CANADIAN, MORE PRECISELY MONTREALERS.

Émilie Laliberté
General Director of Stella
http://www.chezstelle.org

ps Chelsea, maybe you should start addressing the lack of sexual education, the accessibility of internet for kids, the glorification of young bodies in magazine, the representation of women in media and music industry. Or maybe you should shut down your blog. Just saying.

Thanks Roo. I don't think I'm particularly brave (this is, after all, anonymous for me) but I appreciate that. Sheltered life or prissiness aside, Chelsea and I are relatively close in age and both of us are sufficiently educated to think before we speak.

If the stats I've heard are right, one in three women have been or will be raped at some point in their life. There are too many of us out here.
It took me a long time to be able to remove myself from the experience itself and to regain the power, voice and humanity that is lost when a person is violated in the multi-faceted way that they are when something as important and intimate as the sex act is used to commit gross violence against them, but I did it. It is not always, it is not without backsteps, believe me, but you and I are in the powerful position of being outspoken, intelligent, and understanding the issue as insiders. Usually when I talk about it, I don't think about my specifics so much as the systemic issues. It's easier that way. Anyways, my point is, I have love for you too dude.
You're amazing, and the more of us that respond to this kind of talk, the more we'll be able to change the statistics instead of being them.

I completely agree and was about to write something along the same lines! Even if I were hypothetically wearing a revealing and provocative outfit looking for sex it doesn't mean I want to have sex with any man that propositions me in a bar. NO, maybe I am dressing this way for ONE CERTAIN GUY. Or hell, because this is how I like to dress.

Are you insinuating your can't get raped in a sundress or are you being sarcastic?

I hope you are being sarcastic…

this is despicable.

Maybe I'm the only one who actually agreed with this article, but I absolutely did.
I thank Chelsea for speaking her mind, and shame on those of you who are telling her she shouldn't have a blog. She can say whatever she wants to say; she doesn't have to please you.

A breath of fresh air among all of the feminist articles. Thanks, Chelsea.

Sorry, slight tangent. But I just had to say that as a Christian, it really, really pisses me off when people use “I'm praying for you” the way you just did, DDMMTB. It was CLEARLY not a sincere and loving gesture. It was a passive aggressive, holier-than-thou way of placing yourself on the moral high-ground in this debate. Not cool. It's situations like this that give us a bad name.

It was actually during a safety forum at a law school, not sure where people are getting the “junior high” thing from…

It was a passive aggressive, holier-than-thou way of placing yourself on the moral high-ground in this debate.

Isn't that what “I'm praying for you” means all the time?

I don't think so. I'm not a religious person but if someone was speaking with a friend about troubles in their life and the person replied “I will pray for you” because they believed it would help, then they are showing support and empathy, unlike in the cases where people use the phrase to show disapproval.

Chelsea covered the bases: dressing “sexy” doesn't give anyone the right to assault/rape, but the reality is that there are men who do take it as an “invitation.” While that is not right, it is the way the world spins.

What's to argue with about her position? She is simply saying that she chooses to recognize the reality of the situation: the more provocatively she dresses, the more responses she will get from men — no, make that “males” — who view her style of dress as an invitation to come on to her, and some who will go even further than that[ AND THAT GIVEN THAT, SHE CHOOSES NOT TO DRESS “SEXY”(or in a fashion some might call “provocative.”)

Sorry, everyone else: I agree w/ Chelsea, who figures it's better (and smarter) to avoid putting yourself in a bad situation than to bitch about it when something that is entirely foreseeable happens.

Sluts are looking to get fucked when they dress like sluts.

Oh HELL NO. The SlutWalk is happening to ram it into people's heads that a rapist can't absolve himself of any responsibility. Telling men that their lack of self control is a woman's fault just makes it easier for men to rape. In Afghanistan a woman who shows her face “asked for it”, in 1950's America showing a little knee cap was “asking for it”, isn't it funny, how relative the definition of “slut” is?

Let's stand up for ourselves and stop slut shaming each other goddamnit! Demand that people change their minds. Demand your right to wear what you want, to be respected, to feel safe. Nothing ever changed by people acquiescing to “just the way things are”.

Chelsea is, in fact, betraying women in this article. All the women/men who support her mentality should be ashamed. She can write whatever she wants, but her lack of intelligence and insight on this issue is embarrassing.

Good one. Hey Chuckster, why don't you go drown yourself in shit lake? Loser.

@twitter-150475376:disqus specialkrj
It's about sluts trying to say dressing like a slut is fine. its fucking not! dress like a bitch in your HOUSE not outside. there are youngster and kids, old people etc and its a total lack of respect. I say fuck this walk

If any thing the slut walk and the type of orthodox feminism that it promotes, in fact helps solidify the exact same social norms and stereotypes that it claims to over come. Namely that sex is an economic resource that women should have sole discretion over using and that they can do what ever they want without consecquence. On an other level it is interesting to see how this mentality takes the old stereoptype of “women as subordinant weakling who can only use her pussy as a negotiating tool” and turns it in to a more modern version with about the same fundamentals. A truly liberalized gender balances society/sexual norms would look nothing like the slutwalk.

You're falling victim to a logical fallacy. Saying “If you don't dress
like a slut, you are less likely to get raped” does not mean “If you got
raped, it was likely that you were dressed like a slut”.

“Demand that people change their minds. Demand your right to wear what you want, to be respected, to feel safe.”

Society has shortcomings. This isn't namby pamby land. The world isn't perfect and never will be.

That isn't what this walk is about. It's not about the right to dress like a “slut” (whatever subjective meaning you assign to that loaded term), but rather the right to NOT BE RAPED. It's not about showing “a total lack of respect” to people who may disagree with your clothing choices; it's about feeling safe and not being blamed for “asking for it” no matter what you are wearing.

Yes, dressing “provocatively” may offend some people. And may turn some guys on, and give them certain expectations. But their expectations, whatever they may be, NEVER make it okay for them to sexually assault you. If it is not with your consent, it is NOT okay. And it is NOT your fault for wearing a nice pair of heels.

Not that this article has a lack of conversation – but thought that I would add to it anyway. After reading a variety of comments as well as the article, I think it's safe to say that as social creatures taught millions of conscious and unconscious behavioral and culture norms from birth, I can agree that the way people dress may, depending on the culture one lives in, elicit a pattern of responses and judgement about who you are as a person.

Humans use this quality all the time. That is why there are uniforms. That is why there is racism/sexism/xenophobia/ect. That is why there is the show “What Not to Wear” for example – they know that people judge other people. It's human.

If I go out on a Friday night and wear a very revealing top, I am expecting people to notice as a result. Let's be honest. However, I would agree with many others that the way others think about you, regardless of dress, absolutely does NOT give others a right to cause you physical or even emotional harm. One does not “have it coming.”

I support the slutwalk because at its core it seems to be attempting to change a paradigm as a society about the morality or perceived character of a person by the way they look. It attempts to widen the definition of “normal” dress so that women (and anyone really) have the freedom and social security of all the judgement that accompany a person who looks “normal,” accepted and to be respected as a human being.

Reality over idealism.

Women should not be able to do whatever they want without consequence. But women SHOULD be able to have “sole discretion” over who has sexual relations with them. Period.

And out of curiosity, what would it look like then? Because what the slutwalk looks like is challenging society's assumptions.

Then call it “RapeWalk”.

“ You can look pretty, feminine, elegant, attractive – without stripping your appeal down to its basest, most physical level. Women know the kind of attention they attract when they dress like that.” 

How is this a “breath of fresh air”?  It sounds like the same victim-blaming, socially conservative attitude that's been holding women down for centuries….

if i may, lady is correct in saying this walk is about rape, but incorrect to suggest it has nothing to do with how someone dresses. 
grimo, fuck you.  if i like a pair of shorts that happens to be a little short, i still have the right.  if i outright want to show some chest when i go out, i have the right.  no one ever expects to get raped.  on the contrary, many get positive responses when wearing skimpy clothing, and continue to do so for that very reason. 
beyond that, it was started as a response to the specific comment “don't dress like sluts”.  slutwalk makes sense.
but again, as lady said, this does essentially come down to rape.

This is a disappointingly narrow minded post made by a seemingly intelligent person.  The comment made by the cop was absurd and irrelevant. There are hundreds if not thousands of sexual assault cases that are dismissed on the basis that it was the victim’s fault for whatever they must have obviously been doing or wearing that provoked someone to rape them.  The SlutWalk may be misguided in its chosen terms but to be a young woman arguing the “you get what you dress” bullshit that the cops do is deeply upsetting to me.  Naked, in bed with your husband, you do not deserve to be raped.

Rape is assault.  The people that rape other people are mindfully choosing to cross a boundary, they are not just blindly falling on top of them.  Women are raped wearing all kinds of clothes.  Perpetuating the bullshit that even a woman who chooses to walk down the street naked was asking to be raped is akin to blaming any regular person for getting punched in the face in broad daylight by a stranger who just happened to really want to punch someone.  Seriously.  Nobody would do that, everyone would ask the person who did the punching what the fuck his problem was.  And so, we should ask the people who rape women why the fuck they think it's okay to brutally assault someone.  Period.

Finally, I just want to speak a bit from personal experience:  I am a pretty conservative dresser myself.  I don't generally dress overly feminine and at times dress in a manner that is completely androgynous, rarely I wear a dress and even my dressy outfits are more conservative than most.  Regardless of this, I am still an attractive, young, and fit woman.  It has never mattered what I am wearing whether or not people objectify me.  Just the other day I was wearing a shapeless flannel shirt and ripped blue jeans when a man at a bar tried to forcibly invade my space and slapped my ass.  Why did he do this?  Because he was being a fucking idiot and I was walking away from the conversation, this hurt his feelings so he felt he needed to assert his dominance over me by showing me that he could still touch me if he wanted.  So he did that and I turned around and punched him in the face, fucking moron.  But let me assure you that this was not the first time.  Maybe you have received more unwanted attention when you are dressed a certain way, but I have received unwanted attention when I'm not dressed a certain way.  I have received unwanted attention when I have been telling people to their face that I do not want them near me.  Men are aggressive and rarely blamed for their aggression.  This is the problem, NOT what women are wearing.

If we do not recognize this reality and try to amend the perspective of people like the cop in question, then we are only perpetuating the cycle of bullshit that keeps women oppressed and silent.

As a child, I was molested by my older brother. Does that mean I was “asking for it” every time I played house with him? Maybe my “slutty” little girl clothes gave him the wrong idea. GET THE FUCK OUT CHELSEA. 

Not only are you really dumb, but you lack sympathy. I would hope nothing this horrible ever happens to you and you learn the hard way.

This is not narrow-minded. She never said that she blames the victim or that people fully covered or anything aren't assaulted. Yes, it is a BIG problem that  victim-blame gets in the way of justice. But I think that the idea of a “slut walk” may have distracted highly from the real issue. For example, one image from the walk shows a woman holding a sign saying the outfit she was wearing was the one she was raped in, so go ahead and “tell me it's my fault” when the outfit was not the least bit provocative. If the street was full of woman all dressed in the same manner, perhaps the term “slut walk” would get the point across better because then it would emphasize all the woman who are victims who are being considered at blame or to be “slutty” when it is so far from true. But a multitude of women went dressing as provocatively as possible, and proudly claiming to be a “slut” and while that doesn't give the right to ANYONE to violate ANYONE and still doesn't mean they are to blame, it still sends a MIXED MESSAGE. So no, this post was not narrow-minded. What's narrow-minded is thinking that it is so wrong to suggest that women start respecting themselves. Try walking down the street as a strong confident woman in a flattering outfit, then try again in a provocative one. You WILL see a difference, because it will APPEAR that you are offering something you actually aren't.

wow, you took what she was saying way too personal

we know when we look into the mirror before we go out if we look like
we’re trying to lay down for the first man that looks at us. Even if we
don’t want to admit it.<—- UM NO…. you're missing a HUGE point. no man will EVER look in the mirror before he goes out and determine whether or not he looks like he's going to  'lay down' for anything. it is IMPOSSIBLE for a man to dress like a slut. and also, you do have someone (something, rather) to blame when you get that feeling in your stomach when you dress slutty. blame patriarchy

Um.  I was not at all suggesting that women don't respect themselves.  I am 100% for empowerment and women taking control of their sexuality and lives.  But what the author demonstrated in this post through her dialogue which is no different than the victim-blaming dialogue  that she is going to just uphold the status quo and be ok with the authorities' frequent excuse that women dress inappropriately therefore they are raped.  provocative or not, it simply should not make a difference, that does not give anyone the right to assault someone and that is what the slutwalk is about.  Period.

The logical fallacy here is that people dismiss the fact that rape is ASSAULT.  It is an insane leap of logic to state that dress has anything to do with rape.  Beyond that, this argument is so far from the point when it comes to the slutwalk.  I doubt highly that the women who dressed provocatively in the slutwalk dress that way ordinarily, it was to make a point about the way the legal system treats rape cases.  Obviously this went over pretty much everyone's head.

The more valid question here is:  was the slutwalk the right approach?  And if not, what is a better one?

I know I mustn't dress like a slut in order to continue as an unraped person. The point in slutwalk is: we SHOULDN'T have to worry about it. As many posters at the slutwalk said, “a dress is not a yes”

Get over yourselves.  No one is saying that anyone 'asked for it'.  What the cop said was perfectly reasonable.  I wouldn't walk down a dark alley waving my wallet around.

“Demand your right to wear what you want, to be respected, to feel safe.”
You can wear what you want and should be safe for sure, but I don't have to respect you.  I don't respect grown men who wear Ed Hardy t-shirts and spray-on tans.  Likewise, I'll take a lady over someone who dresses like a hooker any day.

Glib. Pithy.

Personally, I prefer reality over sexism.

I understand what you are saying, and I agree with most of it, however, please don't talk about your right to be a jerk. Sure you can act like a jerk all you want, but if you act like a jerk and someone smacks the shit out of you, there will be a lot of people who will tell you it was your fault for being an asshole. Acting like a jerk is different from dressing provocatively.

at this point, commenting would just be silly. who wants to read anymore..but i'm gonna type this anyway:

rape, and sexual assault in general, is used as a tool of dominance and violence, usually — but not always – by people with penises (the real statistic is that the male sex organ is used as a weapon 90% of the time), to exert force and to hurt another human being.

in america at present, one in four women will experience some form of sexual assault. in australia, one in five women will experience sexual assault. america and australia. western, developed nations. children, transpeople, men, male identified people, and most often women, female identified people, and LGBTQ people are at a seriously high risk of being victims of assault. for no reason.

marital rape was legal in america until 1994.

a penis is not a gun. it's not non-discriminatory.

currently in congo, west africa, approximately fifty women are raped every hour. in 2007, that equalled to about 400,000 women being raped in a nation of less than seventy million people. (source: NY Times)

the exponential number of rape and sexual assault cases is literally the result of the societal acceptance and promotion of misogyny (and that word is as dirty as feminism these days, where women who use those terms are deemed to be whining about issues that no longer matter. feminism must be outdated, misogyny must not seriously still be something those feminists sling around. those are man-hating women. et cetera).

the reality is, women are whining and screaming because women and female identified people are being victimized simply for the perceptions that
1. they have vaginas and breasts
2. their vaginas and breasts are sexualized in non-sexual contexts, regardless of how covered or exposed they may be.

a breast is a breast, whether a woman is feeding her baby, or is fending off some person, whatever gender, from trying to get near them. a vagina is a body part. it bleeds, it helps a woman to conceive a child. it may be the reason a transperson cannot look in the mirror.

half of all living humans have these body parts.

this is where the misogyny comes in.
the likelihood of a man or male identified person to cross the line of appropriateness and decency of another person who is female or female-indentifying is statistically greater than the liklihood of a female to cross that boundery with another female, female-identified person, man, or male-identified person.

why?
1. male privilege in every society on the planet (minus one in china, but that's another story for another day.)
2. the socialization of females to be non-aggressive, submissive, et cetera, simply because they are perceived to be female
3. the socialization of males to be dominant, to prove masculinity, to be aggressive, et cetera, simply because they are perceived to be male.

additionally, there the confusion of western society, like that of america,

where sexual imagery is thrown about everywhere, and images of feminine (generally female) sexuality bombard women and girls at a rate of three hundred thousand advertisements per day as of 2011, from birth,

whilst simultaneously shaming women and girls by telling them that they are not okay, not worthwhile, or not acceptible if they don't buy the dress, the bra, the perfume, the heels, the eye shadow, etc.

and then telling them that those things they were told to wear and to buy are the reasons for their assault-

this hypersexuality and hypocritical dichotomy of the need to be simultaneously “desirable” and “pure” can fuck with a girl's mind.

see: lack of confidence and self worth. maybe even eating disorders, depression, self harming, et cetera and so on.

boys go through a similar process: be aggressive, look this way, act this way, think this way, speak this way, have sex this way, have sex with a girl who looks like this, if she looks like this she wants it, don't listen when she says no.

and it's terrifying.

slutwalk isn't about the freedom to wear a skirt and to not be raped.
it's about the use of misogyny to allow sexual violence, through inaction, to become a  typical part of life in society.

slutwalk is about making people think, question, and educate themselves.
no person will ever deserve to be raped or sexually assaulted. no man, no woman, no child.
and the words actions of millions of people need to begin to reflect this idea in a more significant way.
enough is enough.

And you could, you know, not be a douchebag when disagreeing with the writer. She wrote her opinion, explained it, and had a fleet of people who didn't seem to actually read the whole thing start bashing her. She never said rape is the victims fault, not because of why they dress, or whatever reason you want to misconstrue from what she actually said.
You wanted to see something that wasn't there so you can get high and mighty, but try reading the actual article as unbiased as possible instead of glancing through it with  something already in mind; then maybe you'd actually see what was said.

I'm feel for you that you were put through what you were; however, the writer did NOT blame victims. All she said was, essentially, that dressing provactively increases your chances of sexual assault happening. If you walk around a dark alley in a bad part of town with money taped to your jacket, you're upping your chances of getting mugged. This doesn't mean the mugger is innocent of the crime or that the victim is to be blamed; it just means if the victim hadn't worn a money-jacket, he might not have gotten mugged. Sexual assault is different since it happens in different ways and under different circumstances, but somehow people are mixing up the point of the walk with dressing slutty – which I understand when one names it “slutwalk.” They could've named it something better and done something that didn't have so many people looking like they were just using an excuse to wear their lingerie in public (this wasn't a high majority, but it was in a lot of the photos of it, so it's the part that got media attention).

Here's the first thing: a woman should have the right to dress however she wants, whether it be considered conservative or provocative, by whatever standards she chooses, without being shamed for her choice.  In fact, this goes for any person of any color, any gender identity, any sexual orientation, class, etc.
 
Second thing: one of the problems with the assumption that provocative clothing on women will increase their chances of being  raped and/or sexually assaulted is somewhat misleading.  Most rapes are not done in a dark alley.  Most victimes of rape and/or sexual assault are raped/assaulted by PEOPLE THEY KNOW AND QUITE POSSIBLY TRUSTED.  That does not require sexy clothing.  Also, we are appear to be assuming here that rape only happens to women by men, not that men can assault men, and we are excluding children as victims and we are not including the possibility of women as rapists too (admittedly I do not know the statistics for this).  And we haven't even covered date rape.  Or the use of rape as a weapon of terror or that people can be sexually assaulted by things other than a penis.  And of course, there's violence against self-identifying LGBTQs and their allies too…

Generally there is a possibility you will get raped whether or not your clothing is considered provocative, regardless of your location.

I don't know if rape victims should be considered responsible for something that happened WITHOUT THEIR PERMISSION.

Rape is a damned complex thing, a product of social context, privilege, gender norms, patriarchy, rape culture, and a host of other factors.

And SlutWalks are FAR from perfect.  Indeed, they should be criticized–if nothing else, to create dialogue and to include more voices and perspectives so that they can be improved and get their message against rape, sexual violence, and sexual assault across more pointedly.  While their methods may be questionable, sexual violence and the treatment of victims of sexual violence ARE subjects people need to be more aware of.

In here you also seem to be assuming that feminists all seem to think the same thing like oh, say, support SlutWalks (correct me if I'm wrong, here, but that's what your opening statement comes across as to me).  The thing is, the feminist community is HUGE and DIVERSE.  There are many different schools and strands of thought within feminism and not all of them agree with one another–and many change and critique their beliefs as they go.  SlutWalks are controversial within the feminist community as well.  (Also, not all feminists are straight, white, middle class women.)  Please do not view feminists as one hulking homogeneous mass.  A little research might go a long way.

Chelsea, you strike me as an intelligent woman; however (and I hope you take this as a learning experience) please do more research before you write about something as complex, controversial, and sensitive as rape.

women now are dressing slutty to prove a few points…….i look better than you…..i can get more attention than you….etc. we know that we are very vain and love the attention.
we no longer dress for comfort we dress for attention and when we go and party in the next to nothing outfits, drinks and music in our head, we dont pay attention to what we do or to who. so i agree that dressing slutty combined with our behaviour at times cause alot of unwanted attention.

Most rapes are perpetrated by people the victims know personally, and are pre-meditated (these are based on real statistics – check up on the stats in your own country). They are more often about domination than lust-fulfillment. If slut dressing is what gets women raped, why do they happen to 80-year-old women in their homes? Why do they happen to Afghan women in burkas? Why do they happen to 8-year-old girls in pyjamas? Why do they happen to random females during wartime? And how about women who are pretty and have naturally sexy proportions no matter what they wear? Would it be prudent for them to disfigure themselves so they won't get raped?

If a businessman carrying a branded briefcase and wearing gold tie pin was mugged, find me someone who would blame him for flashing his wealth. The mugger would be charged for theft, even if it was shown that the victim had dangled his wallet in his face and taunted “nyah nyah nyah!”. In the same vein, if a woman flashed a man her boobs but still said no, it's STILL a no – just ask any bouncer in a strip club. No matter how sexually enticing a woman looks, a crimminal is still a crimminal.

I am a woman and I dress to be attractive – not because I want every man out there to do me, but because I'm biologically evolved to want to attract a mate, and I want to have the CHOICE to say yes.

Yes, I agree that everyone (not only women) ought to practise caution,
but the best of caution has not prevented rape for many women (and
sometimes men). And dressing is only one small consideration when it
comes to practising caution.

And yes, I agree, you don't understand feminism.

The idea that you can avoid being raped by dressing conservatively is a lie, pure and simple. Propagating that lie is a betrayal of women. The responsibility for rape rests with rapists, not their victims. That’s the point of SlutWalk. I hope the many responses to this blog have caused you to rethink your position. 

I think the problem with this line of thinking is that you will never live in a world where rape doesn’t exist.  Just like you will never live in a world where murder doesn’t exist.  So, you can take the point of view of  ”I can wear whatever I want and look however I want and nobody has the right to touch me”, which is true, it’s just unrealistic.  Even in your previous post you don’t see your part in getting your ass slapped.  The phrase “a man at a bar” should register a blip on your radar.  Ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety.  The “rights” of human beings will only take you so far.  The reality that there are cruel, evil people in the world will always trump any rights you think you have.

I don’t think the writer meant to say that it was solely the women’s fault and thus the rapist shouldn’t be charged. And to be quite honest, if said businessman was carrying a branded briefcase and the gold tie pin around a ghetto-ish place, I would put some of the blame on him. Similarly, and I’ve seen this a couple times, I would partially blame a person wearing a River Plate jersey to Boca Juniors’ home stadium for being beaten up by Boca fans, sometimes you ought use common sense.
If you are wearing anything suggestive (fancy suit=rich businessman, ‘slutty clothes’=slut, shiny new shoes=rich person  etc) you should at the very least be prepared to be treated as so.
That is, however, where the police comes in; it is the cops’ job to prevent this kind of problems of happening.  In an utopian world, you would be able to wear nothing without anyone raping you, but we don’t live in an uropian world. That is why you have to use common sense when judging where you’re going / what you’re wearing / who you’re going with / etc.

My part in getting my ass slapped was that I was in a bar?  really?  That’s pretty fucking weak.  Generally at 6pm on a wednesday in an empty bar when I’m with three other people, the last thing I expect is to be groped by some drunk idiot.  I don’t walk around touching people, so why should strangers feel it’s okay to touch me however they want, wherever I go?  We did nothing to provoke this person.  In fact, we did everything to get away from them, but they were getting in OUR faces and making a scene.  He didn’t touch me until we were walking away and he only did it because his feelings were all hurt because we didn’t want to listen to his drunken babbling red neck bullshit.

If men were confronted with this sort of violation to their personal space as regularly and violently as women are, there would not be people commenting on forums like, “There’s evil in the world, deal with it.”  Yes, there’s evil in the world, but there is also law enforcement that allegedly deals with said “evils” … sadly, cops and courts alike would rather pontificate about what the woman did to entice rape than confront the actual issue.  Just like you are doing with this comment.  I will say it until my face is blue.  RAPE IS ASSAULT.  Just as you should not punch a stranger in the face for looking ugly, you should not forcibly harm someone for being female.  And that’s what it is at the end of the day.  It has nothing to do with dress and everything to do with men being taught and even encouraged to have no sense of decency or self control.  People need to be educated that what they do to others has an impact on them and the authorities at hand need to crack down on assault accordingly.  This is justice.  Nothing more, nothing less.

You’re an ass hole. Feminism is about empowerment, it’s about equalization for men and women. Obviously you view men as superior to women although, in your mind, men can’t control themselves. Not only are you disgracing women, who have every right in the world to dress how they want to and act as they wish as long as no harm to another is done, but you are also disgracing some very decent men in the world by basically calling them animals with no self-will. I don’t know what fucked up world you live in to think that a woman has to take blame for rape. No matter what a woman is wearing or who she “makes eye contact” with, there is no invitation and no excuse for rape or any other disgusting behavior. I would almost feel bad for you that your life is so pathetic if I didn’t hate you so much. And just to let you know, I have never in my life spoken to anyone in such a manner as I am now, you truely bring out the worst in me.

You obviously did not pay attention to what this woman posted. Rape is not done on impulse.  Rape is almost always premeditated. The clothing you wear had absolutely no effect.

Yes, but unwanted attention is not the same thing as rape.

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNS9MzGOQtU

when i was in Italy my resident director warned the american teenage girls to not dress provocatively because they might get unwanted attention

and i remember even when my friends would were SHORTS or DRESSES when it was hot outside they would be harassed and catcalled and men thought it was open invitation

now i don’t know if this is cultural or not but you have to realize that yes you can dress whatever you want but if you get unwanted attention (not rape or sexually assaulted) that maybe there is something with your dress because people automatically assume something whether it maybe true or not.

don’t know if this contributes to the conversation but i just wanted to say my piece

Wow, you really are the worst. Someone just directed me to this post as an example of someone who doesn’t understand the purpose of the SW, and furthermore, actually demonstrates why we need it so badly. I hope you stop it with the internalized misogyny someday, because that is a huge bummer.

the meaning of the word IS changing. young girls prefer to be called a slut rather than a bitch. is this better? I don’t know. when I was at highschool, if they started calling you a slut, you could forget it. not one boy would ask you to go out. this has changed, I think. I even found a brand of t-shirts using the word slut, and not in the negative way: http://slutshirt.spreadshirt.com/ is it better? I don’t know. but it IS changing.

I just heard about this. The author is a woman. She says
“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of his wits [because he's been partying], having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the least, confusing. And while that does not give him the right to violate her, it also cannot be claimed that women are entirely innocent in this situation.”
Duh!
I like scantily clad women. I’m a guy. When I see a woman dressed like that I don’t see her as a fellow human being, I see her in the manner she is presenting herself, as a sex object, although there is no way I would ever be able to force myself on someone who says “no” because for me part of my turn on is the lady’s turn on. I don’t see how other guys can perform when someone doesn’t want them.  But consider ladies how grossed out you feel when a guy dresses too provocatively (say wearing bulge showing Speedos. I don’t know if ya’ll really don’t like it or just pretend not to. Probably depends on the guy. I don’t wear them) Guys don’t feel grossed out, but the emotional reaction is equally strong. Get a clue.

Maybe not, Hannah, maybe so. But you’re being very unrealistic if you don’t consider what your clothes signal. Dressing like a slut will raise the probability you will get noticed, and maybe harassed as much as driving drunk will raise your probability of getting in a wreak. I’m not talking wearing shorts and a halter top, I’m talking being provocative. Would you be surprised if you waved a red flag at a bull when he charged?

“We can all laugh when Dave Chappelle does his routine about women dressing like sluts at clubs getting offended when men make unwanted sexual advances, especially when he makes the apt comparison of dressing like a police officer and then getting offended when people ask for help on the street. That, to all of us, is funny and relatable.”

I don’t know who you’re referring to by ‘all of us’, but I know I DEFINITELY would not laugh at this routine. A police officer is a profession. They have a duty to take care of people who need help, to enforce the law. It is not a woman’s responsibility to submit to a man’s sexual advances just because he thinks she should.

Actually “Reason” yes. This is almost always presented by the Defense in rape cases as to discredit the victim and excuse the defendant for his confusion.  And yes it unfortunetly it does work because our society continues to  victim blame.

aah, finally someone amongst the ladies who says that, yes, it is not wise to dress like a slut. the overwhelming cacophony is that women could do whatever they wanted and not face the consequence. it’s not like you can educate lecherous men with a few slut walks!

the whole idea of dressing up like a slut was created by men. the fashion, the buzz, whole sexuality  issue is controlled mostly by men who dominate fashion, the same people dominate clothing, fashion and beauty industry. we also now live in an age where girls want to look sexy at a very young age – little lolitas – which is so revolting. and yet women think and dressing however they want will fly – they are falling into the trap laid by men.

I’m no moral authority on what’s asafe dress or not, but it is upto the sensibilities of women. men do not wear minis/ micros/ they dont have low tops, sideboobs, the no panties show like lindsay or paris. none of these controversies. all of it is highlighted by the media too – the rise of sluts like paris hilton. we even celebrate these bad role models. the society as a whole needs to reflect on this aspect, rather than go on a pointless slut walk. we dont need to be taliban and go bersekr with hijabs, we just need to be sensible

why dress like one when you do not want to be treated like one ?

There is a huge difference between general mistreatment and rape.
I get cat called and flirted with {unwanted} just about as often as I get insulted for being an artist.  People just kinda suck in general and tend to run their mouths.  Though it’s not okay or polite or necessary  - people do it.
However, while a little verbal stupidity is manageable, physical assault is unwarranted, unacceptable, and should never be blamed on the victim.
In a perfect world there wouldn’t be rapists.  But blaming a raped girl or man doesn’t solve anything.

If “slutty” clothing can actually “cause” rape, then the manufacturers and peddlers of such clothing should be arrested as accomplices, and their factories and retail stores should be shut down.

Who’s with me?!

“If you wear a mini-skirt, I have the right to look at you like a woman
wearing a mini-skirt. If you are wearing clothing that draws my
attention, I have the right to give you that attention. What you are
wearing will very much influence the way you are treated in this and all
societies.”

HAHAHAHAHA!

 
“File under: Internalized oppression.

I mean, really, black people should try not to act too black. That way it’ll be easier to respect them.”
By:Caitlin

‘Chelsea’s supporter’ should be changed to ‘chelsea fagan’ hey there, were not stupid

I think that maybe you didn’t understand the full context of the policeman’s words, when he said that women shouldn’t dress like sluts he said this while stating things that women could do to prevent being raped. Then Slutwalk itself has in a way warped because the founders originally asked for participants to wear normal clothing attempt to show that women are being raped regardless of what they are wearing and it has changed now to the sense of society blaming the victim instead of the rapist. 

Why is it when the topic of rape comes up, its always the women’s conduct or dressing that comes under scrutiny? You know what would really help in preventing women from being victimized? Men learning how to keep their dick in their pants. You, Chelsea, are sick in the head if you think a women is responsible for being raped, showing you have no clue what the word even means. Grow the hell up and soon.

you fucking cunts dont get the point.
HOW ABOUT YOU STOP ACTING LIKE SLUTS AND PROSTITUTES IF YOU DONT WANT TO BE TREATED LIKE ONE.

           I feel the need to point out the fact that she is not saying ” if you dress in a suggestive manner, and you get raped it was Ok for the rapist to do so.” but what she is saying is that it is unrealistic. I don’t give a shit how much you protest, that they don’t have the right to rape someone. THEY DON’T CARE they will rape you anyway. THIS IS THE WORLD THAT YOU LIVE IN, no one cares about your whining and bitching and you are most certainly not helping anyone by doing this.
        
         You have to suck it up and do something that will help yourself and MOVE ON, or you can go cry and bitch about it in your corner. This is the truth, someone does not have the right to steal your car, but they will anyway.

     Would you steal a Camry or a Lamborghini both have the key in the ignition. The same thing applies in that should you dress like a ‘slut’ it does not help your chances of not being raped. All she said is that DRESSING LIKE A SLUT WILL MAKE YOU MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED. This is a fact I am not being insensitive I think it’s horrible someone would do this, but it doesn’t change the fact that they will.
     

      And yes I am a male – and I welcome the hate I will receive for “Defending the rapists” which I did not.
I am not the least bit interested in your feminist ideals with your equality bullshit. Because you are usually the ones that only care when women have something to gain, and don’t give a shit if males are being unfairly in a situation.

           I feel the need to point out the fact that she is not saying ” if you dress in a suggestive manner, and you get raped it was Ok for the rapist to do so.” but what she is saying is that it is unrealistic. I don’t give a shit how much you protest, that they don’t have the right to rape someone. THEY DON’T CARE they will rape you anyway. THIS IS THE WORLD THAT YOU LIVE IN, no one cares about your whining and bitching and you are most certainly not helping anyone by doing this.
        
         You have to suck it up and do something that will help yourself and MOVE ON, or you can go cry and bitch about it in your corner. This is the truth, someone does not have the right to steal your car, but they will anyway.

     Would you steal a Camry or a Lamborghini both have the key in the ignition. The same thing applies in that should you dress like a ‘slut’ it does not help your chances of not being raped. All she said is that DRESSING LIKE A SLUT WILL MAKE YOU MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED. This is a fact I am not being insensitive I think it’s horrible someone would do this, but it doesn’t change the fact that they will.
     

      And yes I am a male – and I welcome the hate I will receive for “Defending the rapists” which I did not.
I am not the least bit interested in your feminist ideals with your equality bullshit. Because you are usually the ones that only care when women have something to gain, and don’t give a shit if males are being unfairly in a situation.

The point isn’t who you are putting the blame on – it’s who the law acts against. In rape cases, women are called to defend and recount details that are completely unrelated to their rape. Think of the analogy of the businessman, who instead of being able to say “this person mugged me.” is first quizzed on where he was, what he was wearing, who he was with, how much he had to drink AND THEN and only then if his complaint is deemed worthy enough for prosecution. This is what happens to rape victims every day, women and non-men. This is many people’s lived experience being denied based on what ARTICLES of CLOTHING they had on.

This is misogyny and it contributes to the presence of rape in the world, because when a rapist knows that their victim will have no courses of retribution, and that it is very likely that because the victim is female, she will not be listened to, and that there will BE NO CONSEQUENCES, they will do it. This very scenario increases the rate of rape and other kinds of sexual crimes. So the next time you tell a woman to have “common sense” when dressing, could you please turn your head to all the men in the world and tell them to get some common sense when deciding whether or not to rape and control their goddamn predatory sexuality.

“And for a man, a sexually and visually driven man not in full command of
his wits, having a woman tell him “no” while wearing the most
provocative, arousing, blatantly sexual outfit possible is, to say the
least, confusing.”

The men who rape women do so because of their views of who and what women are. Alcohol may be a factor in lowering his inhibitions, but his misogynist tendencies were present before the rape and will be there again afterwards. While he may try to excuse his behaviour by claiming intoxication or desire, neither is the case as rape is an act of power, control and violence. In fact, the vast majority of rapists want some form of resistance in order to be able to feel like “a man,” which he can never be; he’s a rapist, and real men don’t rape.

As a teacher of self-defence who has researched conflict and violent crime in depth, I can say I honestly wish the writer had done a little bit of research instead of typing out her ass.

a) Bulls are no more bothered by red than by green – they’re red-green colour blind.
b) There is no evidence rape victims are selected by their outfits (less than 4% of rapists could tell you what their victim was wearing, and most of that is by way of anecdote – “I ripped her jeans down”/”I grabbed the hood of her parka”).
c) “Slutty” is a subjective term, predominantly used by those who wish to degrade another person.

I have never been so turned on by a woman that I absolutely had to strip her of her dignity, take control of her sexuality, abuse power or position, use violence or coercion, employ drugs or alcohol, or disregarded age, mental status or dis/ability. Have you? If you have, you’re a rapist. If you haven’t, stop making excuses for them.

The only women who participate in slutwalks are fat ugly cows who have no worries about getting raped.

Two YouTube videos I made of SlutWalk New York Oct 1 2011. The first video is the full lenghth 5 min talk by the first speaker http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH20WzOLcaw&feature=related The second is a photo montage set to music……   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=je0xbTejVNE&feature=related

No matter how much of a slut or prostitute you are, you still don’t deserve to be raped. SMH.

“When I see a woman dressed like that I don’t see her as a fellow human being, I see her in the manner she is presenting herself, as a sex object ”.  

words fail me :(

“All she said is that DRESSING LIKE A SLUT WILL MAKE YOU MORE LIKELY TO BE RAPED. This is a fact”Please cite a source as to the link between dressing provocatively and being raped–this is not a FACT, because it’s untrue. The only link that has been shown so far, backed by statistics, is that women are more likely to be raped by an acquaintance or a friend–so should women stop befriending men, since this is the only thing that’s proven? 

Exactly. Women who dresses sexually, sure, are seeking sexual ATTENTION, such as flirting, such as exchanging of numbers, cat calls are unpleasant but they’re quite manageable. Rape, is a violent attack and a violation of the woman’s body, no one no matter how sexy she/he is dressed, is asking to be RAPED. 

“When I see a woman dressed like that I don’t see her as a fellow human being” Oh okay. So when I see a guy in a skin-tight muscle shirt and skinny jeans showing a bulge, i don’t see him as a human being, but merely an object, that’s totally okay by you too, right?

I was violently raped in 2004.

I spent the following 4-5 years trying to hide my womanly figure out of fear and self-hatred. I would cast my eyes to the ground as men cat-called me, which they’d do even when I wore sweatpants or oversized men’s clothing. I convinced myself that I was asexual, and cultivated an androgynous style to match the remarkable de-feminization I put myself through in the aftermath of my rape. 

Not anymore. I’m no longer willing to sacrifice my femininity. Because you know what? I like wearing heals and dressing like a slightly classier Taylor Momsen and commanding the attention of the room … because at least I have some g/d damned control over that. My confidence and sense of self-worth has been restored. And if I want to go to Brooklyn wearing ripped thigh highs and a short skirt with my bra straps hanging out, I should damn well be able to do so without fear of being violated. And I should be able to own it. And you know what? I walk a hell of a lot more confidently wearing my “slut” outfits than I did hiding my gender in sweats. And for the record, I don’t dress that way for male attention or to sleep around. After everything that I’ve been through, it’s safe to say that going home with strangers is not exactly my thing. It’s just my style. I like it and I think I look GOOD.

You don’t know what you’re saying, Chelsea. You couldn’t possibly. You should be celebrating and elevating your fellow females, even if you don’t agree with every tenant of feminism. Rape is a horrible dehumanizing crime, and no woman earns it, not even a little bit, no matter where her fashion tastes may lie. 

And for the record, the night I was raped, I was wearing a t-shirt and jeans. 

hi Chelsea,
i did not have the time and patience to read all  500+comments, but i saw that the majority of them were angry and not so full of love. i write this comment to tell you that i completely get you. and every young woman who looks attractive and has a media”desirable” shape, at the back of her mind gets you too.  all of us know and feel the power a mini skirt has on a man(unless he is married and over the head in love with his wife).  i conclude that we, as women, should wear provocative clothes( which are different for every body type and we know very well what is and what isn t provocative) only in certain circumstances and always always having a back up plan when feeling we re in trouble.