On Bad Boys And Nice Guys

hmmm. 

JFC – Thought Catalog narrates my life to a T.

HOLY SHIT.

I think that you’re overthinking this to the point of banality. Serious over-analysis going on here.

It’s a bit degrading to guys, don’t you think? To girls, those bad boys are just trophies, conquests, etc.
Personally, if a girl is actively looking for a bad boy then she’s not ready for a serious relationship. Instead of accepting a person for all that they are, the girl wants to dominate and control.

Um. I consider myself a “nice guy,” And what i’ve realized is that women just like something new and different, and being nice 24/7 isn’t an adventure at all. But the statement “A bad boy, with his deep rooted insecurities or mommy issues or broken heart, he’s fixable” doesn’t make much sense to me at all.

http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml

“But if a nice guy, a good boy, tells you you’re perfect or that he loves you more than anything, now that’s suspect. Has he said it to an old girlfriend? If he has, he probably meant it.So really, who is the dishonest one here? The man who you know is lying to you, or the man who pretends he’s giving you something new and untainted and special when it’s really just second-hand sweet nothings?”Treat them mean; keep them keen…

Oops. Goddamn line spaces. 

Girls will always be more attracted to the guy who behaves an ‘asshole’ than the guy who rubs their back/whatever.

Guys who don’t realise this and bitch about it need to get some fucking self-respect. 

How about you be yourself instead of being ‘nice’ all the time, then you won’t be such a doormat all the time. ‘Nice’ in this context isn’t for the benefit of others; it’s selfserving. 

I just have to say right now I didn’t like this at all. So your telling me the ex that I had previously who was a  ”bad boy” should have been the one for me despite the fact that he was emotionally abusive and made me feel like shit. And the guy who I’m dating now who is a “nice guy” I should dump because he all of the nice things he has done to me is all a lie? yeah… about that. I’m just saying don’t speak for everyone. Oh and by the way in most cases, you never “fix” the bad boy. They keep you around by thinking that you changed them from my own experiences with them.So I guess that means I’m not special. Oh well. But to each their own I suppose.

my two favorite things are commitment and changing myself.

UUUH so this is awesome and spot on.  You put into words what I’ve been trying to explain for forever.  So thanks!

Wanting to ‘fix’ a bad boy is no better than being cookie-cutter ‘loved’ by a nice guy. Both of those actions delight in the process, not the person.

I agree with your main point, which is telling good guys to reconsider *how* they love someone and to emphasize the “why” but I’m not looking for a guy to fix. Hammers are for houses not for hearts, and I might hit my own thumb in the fixing. 

so the argument here is that nice guys will have already been nice and sincere to other girls, so when they express affection it is hollow and meaningless, however because the bad guy is a jerk, he  must never have expressed love or affection so when he does do so to you he is being honest and truthful?  wouldn’t that then make him a nice guy?  

and most of the girls i see that date jerks and try to change them (i guess so they can feel special?) end up in one failed relationship after another.  

or maybe this is a joke and i dont get it. im not that sharp, and its early

 ”To girls, those bad boys are just trophies, conquests, etc.Oh noes. Objectification. 

i’ll be your project any day gurl

Your quest to change ‘bad boys’ is so self serving. You shouldn’t be looking to change people. Let people be who they are.

I also find it odd that you’re equating being kind with being insincere. Can a nice guy not be kind and mean it? Yes, perhaps he’s been nice to a lot of other girls in the past, but that’s better than being an asshole to a lot of girls in the past.

If you truly take pride in changing people and only feel special after you’ve tamed a beast then you ought to check yourself. Good luck finding your asshole and my best regards to that poor soul.

What are your thoughts on the nice guy with a bad case of gas? 

So when are we going to get the article about how abused girls shouldn’t whine about being thrown around, since they didn’t have enough “self-respect” to handle the situation. All they do is bitch and moan, but never actually leave their abusers. So, really, they’re the ones asking for it.  We all knew it, y’know, we just didn’t want to say it.

Let’s fall back to axioms of truth: bitches go’n bitch, haters go’n hate, and you suck.

Maybe, but aren’t women, more often than not used as trophies by men!?

You know, as pleasing as it would be to have a perfect sociological answer to this supposed phenomenon, the world isn’t that simple. Especially when you’re trying to label people with such wildly subjective words like ‘nice guys’ and ‘bad boys’.

Still, here’s a far more simple answer:
When you’re into someone who isn’t into you, the people they are into are assholes.

(Could go into the way that guys are fond of rationalizing and reasoning and bargaining their emotions away. Just look at the pros & cons! It’s clear that, logically, she should choose me!)

Tbh, gotta steer clear of anyone who buys into this ‘girls go for assholes’ bs.

Aren’t you just trying to flip the whole situation around? Instead of the “nice guys” being the ones who do things for the other person so they can feel that they matter to them, YOU want to feel like you’re “in control.” Only instead of reciprocating love from someone who might actually like you, you prefer to find pet projects you can change so you can feel superior. I don’t see how you could love somebody who was an asshole from the start besides the fact that you “made” them. I think you might’ve got burned by one too many nice guys who realized you were kind of a bitch.

Aren’t you just trying to flip the whole situation around? Instead of the “nice guys” being the ones who do things for the other person so they can feel that they matter to them, YOU want to feel like you’re “in control.” Only instead of reciprocating love from someone who might actually like you, you prefer to find pet projects you can change so you can feel superior. I don’t see how you could love somebody who was an asshole from the start besides the fact that you “made” them. I think you might’ve got burned by one too many nice guys who realized you were kind of a bitch.

OMG — yes!  You hit the nail right on the head!!!  I never could quite put it into words and you just did!

I think this is a good topic and I’m glad you wrote about it, but I think that grouping men into the two catagoeries of “nice” or “asshole” is over generalizing.  Most people are capable of exhibiting either of these qualities. I’ve seen some “nice” guys do some pretty awful things and some “assholes” act extremely honorable.  I also think trying to change or fix someone is always a recipe for failure.

Props on the Modest Mouse name.

Props on the Modest Mouse name.

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/search/?q=bad+boys

http://www.cosmopolitan.com/search/?q=bad+boys

I think people have different definitions on what is meant by ‘nice,’ which causes much of the debate here.  People should get the point that ‘nice’ and ‘un-interesting’ are two different things.  That nice needn’t equal doormat.  It CAN, if nice is wrapped up in other bad qualities.  I think in this debate people wrap up nice, insecure, doormat, weak, all under the same umbrella, when these things need not be mutually inclusive.
 
Consider your best friend, they’re generally  ’nice’ to you (of course everyone falters, but I’m saying generally), but they’re interesting and engaging and thats why you’re bffs 4 life.
 
Guys can be ‘themselves,’ ‘nice,’  ’interesting, ‘and ‘intruiging’ all at once!  They can be a lot of things all at once, as can women.  I would propose a referendum on using ‘nice’ as the operative word here, but I don’t think thats gonna work heh.

There would be no debate if the line was “Insecure guys finish last.”

I think people have different definitions on what is meant by ‘nice,’ which causes much of the debate here.  People should get the point that ‘nice’ and ‘un-interesting’ are two different things.  That nice needn’t equal doormat.  It CAN, if nice is wrapped up in other bad qualities.  I think in this debate people wrap up nice, insecure, doormat, weak, all under the same umbrella, when these things need not be mutually inclusive.
 
Consider your best friend, they’re generally  ’nice’ to you (of course everyone falters, but I’m saying generally), but they’re interesting and engaging and thats why you’re bffs 4 life.
 
Guys can be ‘themselves,’ ‘nice,’  ’interesting, ‘and ‘intruiging’ all at once!  They can be a lot of things all at once, as can women.  I would propose a referendum on using ‘nice’ as the operative word here, but I don’t think thats gonna work heh.

There would be no debate if the line was “Insecure guys finish last.”

‘Fore you wreck yoself. Indeed. 

‘Fore you wreck yoself. Indeed. 

Seeing them live in August. Excited. 

With that said, didn’t we read this twice in the past month or so?

I think the point is that the token “nice guy” tends to act the same way in all relationships, so you’re never really sure you can trust that you’re any different than any other girl he could be in a relationship with and therefore girls end up doubting their sincerity (no matter how unwarranted the doubt may be).

However, with a “bad boy” you know not to trust him too much or think he really sees you any different than any other girl, so you feel like there’s fewer unknowns because it’s all out on the table.  It may not be a lasting relationship, but it’s an open/honest one in terms of just how open, honest, and sincere each party is being with the other.

Girls look for these boys because they give them the relationship they want without the constant fear of games – it’s not an ideal relationship but, maybe, just maybe, they’ll be the girl to make the bad boy change his ways – then they’ll KNOW their special to the bad boy turned good guy.

Not saying it’s logical or healthy, it just is what it is.  Guys have their versions of it too so everyone get off your high horse and just accept this as what it is – HER opinion and theory on life, love, and relationships – which, sadly, is often proved to be true.

If you go into a relationship with the aim of “fixing” someone so that you can look at them and say “Yeah! I did this”…then your main concern isn’t THEM, but YOURSELF. At least the author was honest enough to say that it was selfish; yet she’s still blind to how shallow she is and how she’s setting herself up for continued failure. Who says that the guy wants to be fixed? What gives YOU the right to try and “fix” him? Suppose he is trying to “fix” YOU?

As for the “nice guy” part…what could he do to prove to you that you’re special? What makes you special? If you don’t believe in your heart that you are already special, what can anyone say or do to make you feel that way? Just because a guy says you’re special doesn’t mean you are…maybe he’s saying it because he wants sex, maybe he’s saying it because you’re neurotic and he just wants to get you off his back…or maybe he means it. Either way, what matters is not that you believe you’re special because someone says you are, but you believe it because YOU KNOW that you are.

If you’re neurotic, and if you prefer to take on a broken guy that you can try to “fix” so you can feel better about yourself for having “fixed” him, and if you reject a guy that will love and care for you because you don’t know in yourself whether he actually means it or if he’s said it to other girls before (ignoring the fact that you’ve probably had other guys before that guy as well)…then you have no one but yourself to blame for all the misery, heartache and pain that will befall you.

I’m still pissed I passed up watching them play maybe 8 years ago because my job at WENDY’S was so goddamn important as a sophomore in college haha.  Damn, don’t think they’ve been back since.  Enjoy!

“But if a nice guy, a good boy, tells you you’re perfect or that he loves you more than anything, now that’s suspect. Has he said it to an old girlfriend? If he has, he probably meant it.So really, who is the dishonest one here? The man who you know is lying to you, or the man who pretends he’s giving you something new and untainted and special when it’s really just second-hand sweet nothings?”

I don’t understand this. If women can love more than once (sincerely), why can’t men? The whole article stands on this weird point that doesn’t make too much sense. The whole thing reads more like a backwards rationalization of a biological preference for male dominance than anything having to do with the overt niceness of “nice” (read: non-dominant, reaction/approval-seeking) guys.

just because a guy does the same nice things for you or says the same nice things to you that he did a previous gf, doesn’t mean that he loves you the same way. we’re all taught how to express love at an early age, but that doesn’t mean we love everyone in the same way. I could say I love you to my ex and I love you to my current gf, but they’re two completely different “loves,” even though the actions might be the same. If you have issues with the sincerity of nice guys, that’s your issue, not ours.

And everybody’s got flaws and everybody needs fixing. We’re all projects, not just “bad boys.” They’re the ones who just don’t control their feelings as well as others.

“But if a nice guy, a good boy, tells you you’re perfect or that he loves you more than anything, now that’s suspect. Has he said it to an old girlfriend? If he has, he probably meant it.So really, who is the dishonest one here? The man who you know is lying to you, or the man who pretends he’s giving you something new and untainted and special when it’s really just second-hand sweet nothings?”
When you actually read this, you see the disconnect in the author’s mind. Who is dishonest, the man who you KNOW is lying, or the man you THINK is lying? Who has the problems of perceptions here?

I agree with the ‘it is what it is’ sentiment here.  We’re not going to solve this anytime soon haha.  But, for the sake of discourse, it takes the same kind of security in oneself to be OK with the premise that while a person may have genuinely liked people before you, they may also genuinely like YOU now!  And I don’t mean now flippantly, as if it could change tomorrow, just at this literal point in time, the future being unknown as it is unfortunately.

The same type of security that the ‘nice guy’ lacks is the same type of security that the person who believes this logic needs.  If you believed this, you’d only want to date people who had bad relationships in which they felt nothing, or none at all.  Otherwise how could YOURS be real, eh?

And I’m not talking about you Al, just in general on the point you brought up :)

Hahaha, yeah right, guys can be “nice” to only one person in a lifetime, and you want it to be you everytime. Grow the fuck up kiddo.

actually, it’s more being burned by not-so-nice guys that has reduced me to a puddle of insecurity who tries to self-sabotage the healthiest of relationships by way of imaginary problems.

By definition, an insincere guy is NOT a nice guy. This should be titled “On Bad Boys and Douche Little Pussy Boys”. 

uh, not exactly.
http://thoughtcatalog.com/2011/dating-an-emotionally-abusive-man/ is an earlier piece, i sort of feel they go together. i got out of something bad too, and i’m still healing – all this self-mindfuckery is part of the process (i hope). and i agree – you never fix the bad boy.
and i’m very happy that you got out of that abusive relationship. good on you, love.

bad boys = more exciting. bottom line, no need for further analysis.

word.

As much as I’ve said I want someone to be sweet to me, I question anyone too ready to be too sweet to someone too soon. (Yes, I know that was a lot of “too” for one sentence.) For me it doesn’t feel authentic when they hand it [admiration, love, kindness, attention, etc] to me without having to earn for it.

brilliant

^this.
you couldn’t be any more right.

sounds like someone got turned down by a nice guy

I am so confused. 

You start by saying girls don’t shun nice guys and go for assholes, then proceed to talk about how girls shun nice guys and go for assholes.

You’re right about one thing: people should stop whining—not just “nice guys,” everyone.

When you find someone who’s cool, play it by ear. Forget this “I’m special” crap. Nobody’s special, everyone’s special—it’s an endless, irrelevant cycle. 

Want to be happy? Step 1: find someone being yourself; Step 2: You’re smart, figure the rest out. The bland mentality of “he’s a nice guy but…,” or “she’s a nice girl but…,” or “that person’s an asshole but he’s sweet,” have got to stop, because, at the end of the day, if two people want to get together, they will. No matter whose heart they have to break, or what rule they have to ignore to do it. In a way, that’s special. But it also doesn’t matter. You’ll find nice guys you like, assholes you’re attracted to. The next move is yours. 

Wanting to feel special is faux justification for men and women’s flawed process of picking who to be with.

I am so confused. 

You start by saying girls don’t shun nice guys and go for assholes, then proceed to talk about how girls shun nice guys and go for assholes.

You’re right about one thing: people should stop whining—not just “nice guys,” everyone.

When you find someone who’s cool, play it by ear. Forget this “I’m special” crap. Nobody’s special, everyone’s special—it’s an endless, irrelevant cycle. 

Want to be happy? Step 1: find someone being yourself; Step 2: You’re smart, figure the rest out. The bland mentality of “he’s a nice guy but…,” or “she’s a nice girl but…,” or “that person’s an asshole but he’s sweet,” have got to stop, because, at the end of the day, if two people want to get together, they will. No matter whose heart they have to break, or what rule they have to ignore to do it. In a way, that’s special. But it also doesn’t matter. You’ll find nice guys you like, assholes you’re attracted to. The next move is yours. 

Wanting to feel special is faux justification for men and women’s flawed process of picking who to be with.

i totally agree with this article. i think people are taking it the wrong way. it’s not about intrinsically hating “nice” and loving “asshole,” it’s the fact that some guys who identify themselves as “nice” act the same way to every girl. i want to feel like an exception. of course it’s selfish  (so is being nice to every single girl you find attractive and taking the first one that bites). it’s not perfectly pure either, but no one is pure. and if the “nice guy” act WERE genuine, i don’t know that i’d have a problem with it. most of the time it isn’t. ive got issues though. w/e.

What makes you (or anyone) an exception? You’re made of the same molecules as every other girl. You probably talk about the same shit as every other girl. But I’m supposed to pine for you as if you are a reincarnation of Juliet? Eat a flaming pile of dog shit.

And maybe, just maybe, arabs and jews will stop killing each other too! Or, we’ll see the same episode of Cops play out every day. Woman gets beat, calls cops, then defends man when cops arrive to arrest him. 

I think you need to revisit your Fight Club: “You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.”

I don’t know what Utopian fantasy camp you’re a part of.. but I’ve never met anyone, man woman or alien, who “made me do things I never considered before.” Oh, if you mean think about turning gay because of being fed up with your kind’s shit, then ok, you got a point, I never considered that before I started dating.

I think you need to revisit your Fight Club: “You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake. You are the same decaying organic matter as everything else.”

I don’t know what Utopian fantasy camp you’re a part of.. but I’ve never met anyone, man woman or alien, who “made me do things I never considered before.” Oh, if you mean think about turning gay because of being fed up with your kind’s shit, then ok, you got a point, I never considered that before I started dating.

Did you read the article before commenting?

Did you read the article before commenting?

this reminds me of some blurb i heard abt how there’s  no such thing as alpha females

a girl will do anything to sleep with the famous singer on stage, while the guy will shrug and go, “why bother going for [attractive female singer], i mean, that girl selling churros is pretty hot too…”

I agree. I like this topic, and I think the author does make a good point about how we irrationally want to feel like we were the most special/unique person someone has been with. But I also feel like there are no such things as “bad boys” or “good guys.” I’ve never met one of either.

Woman, you need to calm the fuck down. Love is like being a child again. Psychoanalyzing it and turning it into a therapy session defeats the purpose of falling in love.

oh so that justifies your actions. eye for an eye, eh?

It’s hilarious girls still haven’t got it. After all these years. “Nice guys” are creepy and have no idea how to get a girl; “Bad boys” are assholes who know exactly what to do to get the girl and keep the girl. You don’t want one or the other, you want the guy who can pull enough of the “bad boy” to never have you realise you just fell hard for a “nice guy”.

Additionally, girls who want to feel like they changed a guy and everything he’s doing he never imagined doing for anyone ever and OMG he loves you so much… well… they wind up with cats.

It’s hilarious girls still haven’t got it. After all these years. “Nice guys” are creepy and have no idea how to get a girl; “Bad boys” are assholes who know exactly what to do to get the girl and keep the girl. You don’t want one or the other, you want the guy who can pull enough of the “bad boy” to never have you realise you just fell hard for a “nice guy”.

Additionally, girls who want to feel like they changed a guy and everything he’s doing he never imagined doing for anyone ever and OMG he loves you so much… well… they wind up with cats.

It’s hilarious girls still haven’t got it. After all these years. “Nice guys” are creepy and have no idea how to get a girl; “Bad boys” are assholes who know exactly what to do to get the girl and keep the girl. You don’t want one or the other, you want the guy who can pull enough of the “bad boy” to never have you realise you just fell hard for a “nice guy”.

Additionally, girls who want to feel like they changed a guy and everything he’s doing he never imagined doing for anyone ever and OMG he loves you so much… well… they wind up with cats.

I wouldn’t want a woman who thinks like this. First of all, get over yourself. Being a nice guy involves way more than how a guy treats his girlfriend or ex or whoever. Second, being in past relationships and learning about yourself and about other people is part of growing. It doesn’t breed insincerity. We don’t get used up or give the best of us away. We’re living, breathing human beings that grow. And I don’t want to hear about so-and-so who is a bad example. Third, you talk of taking some guy and changing him like he doesn’t have a mind of his own to know what he’s doing. Further, the “bad boy” that you want is just a front. You don’t actually want a bad guy, you want a “bad boy” who, on the inside, is actually a good guy. Nobody actually wants the real bad guys that actually do bad things and treat people badly. Unfortunately, some of those guys call themselves nice guys, manipulating others or deluding themselves. No, you seem to have missed the mark. Good luck with that.

nothing actually makes me an exception, and thats why i’ll never be happy. i’m not arguing that it’s right, i’m just saying that it’s how i operate. when you alienate yourself from everyone else, it’s only natural to delude yourself that you’re special. you should understand that, cause you seem to have extra hateful energy while you sit alienated at your keyboard telling me to eat dog doo~*~

Why would you want to change someone?

Its time everyone just stopped pretending we’re these awesome unique individuals and realize we’re all shitty.

finally someone explains why I have to pretend to be an asshole

what the hell are you saying? + doesn’t sound like anyone has made you feel special, even though we’re all not yeah yeah…

This is probably why you’re sad.

Don’t confuse “bad boys” with a real man who will love and take care of his girl. A good/real man may appear “bad” just because they’re strong and confident, but they have good intentions and will most likely not try and sleep with you, which is pretty much what bad boys do.

speak for yourself

I’m married and haven’t dated anyone in years, but I always thought this good boy/bad boy debate was stupid. It’s a really one dimensional way of looking at other human beings. I never pondered whether a man was a “nice guy” or a “bad boy” when I was dating. I always expected to be  treated like a lady because I view myself as one. I expected (and still expect) to be treated like the special snowflake I am by whoever I am with. I’ve never wondered about my boyfriends’ past relationships because they didn’t matter. I could care less about my husband’s ex girlfriends because I guess I feel that no other woman could hold a candle to me anyway and I know he loves ME.  The article seems to be written by a very insecure woman. Feeling special comes from within. If you need to “tame a bad boy” to make yourself feel unique that’s pretty sad.

I’m pretty sure anyone is capable of being both adventurous and nice at the same time. Try it sometime, boring one.

you are making this way too complicated. so is the author. if all you want is a guy that does nice things for you, then keep him. duhr?

yeah. all of the nice guys i’ve met seem to fall in love SO easily. i’d rather be with the asshole that reluctantly falls for me, cause that’s more fun and it makes me feel accomplished. i’m not kidding here, I actually do like that..

I mean, you might think it’s dumb, but this article is true to some extent. a lot of nice guys fall in love with practically every girl they date. the asshole type guy doesn’t fall easily for girls, so when he finally does, you know it is real.

The article is true in that it accurately represents the way insecure women think. Life isn’t a romantic comedy and in real life the scenario playing in your head hardly ever happens. What really happens is an insecure, immature girl goes for “bad boy” who ends up treating her like garbage, sometimes even abusing her, or he “changes” was never that “bad” to begin with. If you actually think you can change men you’re delusional. People can only change themselves. 

And again, why do you care who someone “fell in love with” before they dated you? Isn’t that better than some man whore that slept around with a bunch of tramps and got herpes before he met you? 

This reminds me of a story I heard from my brothers girl friend (not lover) about a get together she had with him and another friend (who was also a girl). Apparently they went to a “pretentious play” as the author put it so ignorantly, and my brother opened the door for both ladies and treated them very chivalrously the whole time. He had no ulterior motives, it’s just what we were taught as boys growing up. Along with how to hold a fork correctly, how to thank someone, and how to apologize.

Apparently after the play, the girl who came thought that my brother was an asshole. Hmm. Maybe if he had of been the cool douche bag like her father was growing up and made more attempts at a one night stand instead of being a gentleman, he wouldn’t have been such an “asshole”. I swear, did the author of this ever think that maybe women aren’t the only ones who need be made special in a relationship? One sided, just saying. 

And as far as nice guys being pretentious, doesn’t that leave the only real option for a man to be genuine to be an asshole? As if being a dickhead is the way every man not only is, but ought to act like to avoid being a lying pussy trying to get into a woman’s pants.

Ok was this post a joke? I thought it was dummb until the “I could have been anyone” part.
I felt that way in my last relationship, but we didn’t have much in common, and he came from the insecure/codependent/possessive-as-hell school of nice guys.

But don’t conflate someone’s respect and courtship with meaninglessness/desperation. Just because a guy treats you right doesn’t mean you aren’t a special snowflake. I did nice things for ex-boyfriend Y who I fell for because he was a secret nerd. I did nice things for ex-bf Z, who I fell for because he was an awesome dancer. (And I think its healthy to look back fondly on good times with exes… if a guy talks shit about all of his exes, run the fuck away!)

And wtf, if some guy is consistently acting like an asshat, it means he doesn’t want to be with me. Why should I waste my energy trying to prove myself or change him?

Yea but you don’t want to be with the kind of girl who wants that… Girls who think of boys as projects thrive on drama. They are just as emotionally unavailable as the assholes they want to fix, they just don’t always realize it. 

“The nice guys, I think, are the most insincere of the lot. They’ll have
sung love songs to old girlfriends, written poetry, delivered flowers,
showered her with affection, taken her to expensive restaurants and
pretentious plays.”

one reason why i don’t want to be in a relationship again. i feel like a phony, and i feel like society is telling me that this is what relationships are supposed to be like.

I met a nice guy like this a few months ago, and we talked about our relationship past.  I was never rejected by him, so I don’t have any bad feelings other than that I just thought he was a phony.  He told me he had been in love with 3 of his girlfriends, and all of the relationships only lasted like 5 months each.  The author is right. Some nice guys just pick a girl and automatically fall in love…it’s repulsive.

I think the author was trying to say that there is a certain type of nice guy that falls easily for every attractive girl that he encounters. It’s like nice guys that are love sick. It’s gross. I’d rather have an asshole!

hey, show me a woman who isn’t insecure at all and i’ll be your slave for life. thanks.

even if a dude hadnt been fucking around with a lot of girls, he probably wanted to, so whats the difference?  you cant blame someone for getting something they want. who cares.

I think what a lot of people are missing in the comments here are that sometimes the “bad” ones do change when fall in love.  There are plenty of promiscuous/asshole-ish people that meet someone and then change. It’s not that their personality changes, it’s their view on sex/love that changes.  There are certain people you connect with that shake your world and make you different, make you want to share something with someone else. It is what it is. A lot of people can’t fathom it simply because they haven’t experienced anything like it before.

How do you know if you’re special or not to the supposed ‘nice guys’?  Have you asked them? Perhaps before you insinuate that someone treating you right is a facade, take a chance with it and you might find out that the ‘nice guy’ is more damaged than the Bad Boy next door.  Assumptions along with dismissive attitudes are for the inexperienced or the ignorant.

personally id be happy to know someone treated their old girlfriend well so long as he treated me well too

A lot of people like to define their relationship in terms of what it’s done for them or what they’ve done for the sake of their significant other.  Somehow, this has always struck me as being off-base. If you think of your relationship in terms of anything other than how amazing you are, together, then you haven’t quite understood the point.

Precisely because I am not special, in any way shape or form. If I was, it would be at the genetic level, a mutant (which is not necessarily a bad thing, just has a negative connotation to the word). Because otherwise, I’m no different than you or your best friend or anybody. I breathe a mix of oxygen, nitrogen, and other trace gases. I take shits, I piss, I cum. It takes a big ego to think that out of the seven billion people ALIVE TODAY, you’re special.

Just because you never consciously thought about it doesnt mean you werent participating in the behavior we’re speaking of.

The same way I haven’t experienced god talking to me.

So to take this to its logical conclusion.. I got my ex girlfriend a $20,000 diamond ring. I guess, since you like being different and special, you would never want the same kind of ring huh?

i feel sorry for you, guy. you’ve clearly never been in lOOooOoOOoOve.

love isn’t logical. you’re doing it wrong FUCKA

actually, i’m dating him. poor guy. 

you’re not the first to tell me that, and the sensible part of me agrees 100%. 
i kind of feel a lot of people missed the point of this piece – which is totally my fault because it means i didn’t write it properly :p

i marry bad guy and bad guy treat me so bad u know what he did? hurt me, break my heart 2 million time, I am so sad he leave me for nother women that he call Shelly and Shelly look like my sister oh it is so sad

yr post on the other hand isn’t even wrong

Agreed on the last point

“It makes girls look like these awful ungrateful, whining brats who don’t
know a good thing when they have it. It makes us sound like gluttons
for punishment, like hard-hearted bitches who trample all over nice,
giving ‘good guys’ in our mad scramble to bed the bad boys.”

This post kind of does that, you realise.

Thesis of this article- “The ‘nice guys finish last’ theory is wrong”

Justification for this thesis- A detailed explanation of the psychology that causes the “nice guys finish last” theory to be right

Misunderstanding of people “liking” this article- That an accurate portrayal of the psychology makes the article an adequate defense of an unjustified thesis

I wrote a rebuttal to this, I hope you read it!
http://flowersj.tumblr.com/post/7709263683/rebuttal-on-the-naivete-of-girls-and-the-guys-who-put

I used to have the same kind of mentality as the author of this article. I started dating a really amazing man about a year ago. We were friends for a few months before, so we had shared stories about our exes. When we started dating, however, I started to wonder whether he was just as nice to his ex-girlfriend and whether he was basing how to act in our relationship on how he acted when they were dating. I snapped out of this stupidity though when I finally realized that he ended up with ME, not the other girl. He could have stayed with her had he continued to love her, but he didn’t. His kindness isn’t insincere, and it isn’t out of habit from his last relationship. He acts the way he does because he loves me. And honestly, if a guy in his late 20′s hasn’t had at least one remotely serious relationship in the past, he’s probably not someone a girl would want to date anyway.

bro, you got more issues than me, and that’s saying something.

Personally, I hate assholes. I HATE them. The only thing that I think people find attractive about them is their arrogance which people usually just mistake as confidence. Who wants to be treated like shit? Seriously? Nice guys ftw. See: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfeys7Jfnx8

I LIKE YOU. please don’t become a douche just because some girls are desperate for someone who will be shitty to them.

haha

no, just give me the cash

Juliet was fourteen EW PERVERT

Care to elaborate?

Care to elaborate?

never seen love as to change the person you fall in love with. But hey, girls who want to pursue “a**holes” arent on many guys’ to-care lists. afte all, if there were anything to lose, wouldnt be the good guys’ to

As a self-proclaimed “nice guy,” who is PROUD of being a “nice guy,” I can’t say “fuck this article” hard enough. You start the article with the sentiment, “I’m tired of nice guys acting like girls are ungrateful bitches,” then proceed to act like an ungrateful bitch. “Oh, he was nice to his ex, therefore, I’m not special and he doesn’t REALLY love me.” Seriously, get over yourself. Of course he was nice to his ex. He was dating her. You expected him to be an asshole to all his previous lovers but you, JUST so you can feel special? Get over yourself.

I’ve had pretty rotten luck with women so far, while all my asshole friends have done pretty well for themselves. A girl I was dating and was very nice to ended up cheating on me with my asshole roommate. For awhile, I was pretty disillusioned. I started being a bit of an asshole to girls, and it worked. I was disgusted. I had to make a conscious, dishonest effort to be that asshole. I was rude. I was funny, but I was rude. More than should’ve been acceptable. And girls ate it up. I felt more disillusioned than ever, and it didn’t help when I decided to go out with one of those girls, started being nice to her, and then everything went to shit.

Girls who want “bad boys” are just fucking dumb. You deserve the heartbreak. Stop trying to find a bad boy who’s “a project” for you to “fix” and try to find a guy who’s mature and caring and NICE. And appreciate that he’s being nice to you. Because all you will do by getting bored and breaking it off to go hang out with some “bad boy” is make him disillusioned and turn him into an asshole.
Thankfully, I’m not there yet. I’m a little bitter, sure, but I would still have to make a conscious effort to be an asshole to girls. And I’m glad that it still takes a conscious effort to turn me into an asshole.

What’s to make you more special than all the previous didn’t-matter’s to the asshole? You might just be another conquest in his seed-spreading adventure. Because you “changed” him eventually does not make you special, it could make you anything from his mistress to his caretaker, one that nurtures him while he secretively continues to fuck other women. It’s either that or they settle, and settling for them comes from the realization that they are 1. bored or 2. need some stability.

If this makes you feel more special than a woman who may be in a truly loving relationship with the supposedly mundane prototypical nice guy, then by all means, continue on your path of self-destruction. I can only wonder how much abuse (physical and verbal) you are able to endure just to satisfy your own illusionary goal of taming “beastly” creatures before you ultimately realize that it’s not worth the trouble.

I will be frank; entering a relationship or desiring a partner who you
perceive is “broken” or “needs fixing” because they will become your
“project” sounds repulsive to me. Men (or women) are not  slabs of
marble that you get to carve to your liking, to make your mark on the
world. Change is at best influenced by another. True change happens when
it is decided by the person who wishes to differ from their past self.

This speech about fixing the bad boy seems like a portrayal of what
people want to happen for themselves, but cannot do. And what of the bad
boy? Does he not get a say to this change? I may not respect the
“jerk”, but he certainly deserves free-will (jail time or similar not
withstanding).

Had you said “nice guys” were boring, or unexciting or perhaps TOO nice,
I might have agreed with you a little. However, questioning the
sincerity of their constant affection speaks of a suspicious mind on par
with the  Cold War mentality; who is out to get me, are people telling
me the truth? Paranoia seems unfitting for the “lady” you want to be. I
find it despicable.

tl;dr Your desire to change someone for the sake of “fixing what is
broken” seems selfish, an expression of personal inadequacy and quite
disgusting. Questioning people’s unconditional affection is bitchy, get
over your suspicious ass.

Amen, brother. Said it very eloquently.

Right with you on this one, brother!

Here’s what I don’t understand about her piece

1.  When a girl dates a ‘bad guy’, and the bad guy treats the girl alright, is this the first time the guy has treated a girl alright?  It seems like most ‘bad guys’ have dated girls before, and have treated them alright, until things go to shit, which is the same as with nice guys.  The difference is that bad guys normally treat people like shit.  But I don’t think there is any uniqueness to being treated well by a bad guy.

2.  The whole ‘change him’ argument doesn’t move me so much.  It’s like she’s saying ‘I want to make the bad guy a nice guy’.  But then why not just date a nice guy?  Are those few months of changing someone so important that it outweighs whatever life you would spend with the person?  To me that’s just a push.  You’re not going to feel special from this forever.  And if this is the motivating factor, I’d say the girl is likely to cheat.

3.  There are some nice guys who have the ability to be nice to girls in different ways.  I have liked each of my girlfriends in different ways and thought they were each beautiful, so if I say they are beautiful, is that cheap?  I also say to different waiters at my local korean restaurant that i want bulgogi, should they be saddened that i ordered the same thing on different nights, or should they just bring me bulgogi?

4.  Everyone wants to be special.  I get that.  But people aren’t limited to only make one person special in their entire life.  

Overall, the thinking that ‘I want to feel special, so I’m going to find me a guy who has never treated anyone special’ is twisted.  

My one real piece of advice to single people is that if someone likes you, that doesn’t mean there is something wrong with them.  You are worth being liked.  And if you do find someone who can say to you straight that he finds you special, it’s a rare enough thing that you shouldn’t discard it because he said the same thing to a high school sweetheart.  Those moments are too good, and too rare, to waste.

Good news guys, Women who are secure and confident in themselves DO NOT want “Bad Boys.”  We can see the road signs and are not interested in becoming the next mistreated “girlfriend” let by the road side.  But, as one of those women, let me tell you something. I find myself constantly pursued by the very type of men I  try to avoid.  I meet nice guys, or ones who say they are anyway, but they don’t try very hard to get what they want (me).  You have to understand.  If I am talking to several men, the one that will succeed is the one that doesn’t pussy foot around.  And you nice guys are terrible for that, and “bad boys” are not.  It’s not because I want a bad boy, it’s because they are the only ones who make it clear what they want.  Of course when I realize that they are “bad boys” then I’m ready to cut my losses and run, even if they have not treated me poorly at all… yet anyway… lol  Try harder good guys!! We are looking for you!

So, let me get this straight:

1. asshole is a synonym for men with “high mate values” because of good looks, height, muscle, power, and money or some combination of the 5.

2. nice guy is a synonym for men with lower mate values.

So, it seems to me that men with high mate values can afford to be disrespectful to women–it may even weed out the ones that aren’t willing to cater to these men.  In that sense, it is in the asshole’s best interest to be an asshole.  

On the other hand, women are probably right for pursuing these assholes.  If you can secure good genes and financial stability in a mating partner, you probably SHOULD do it.  

Nice guys–well we should probably stop complaining about our unfortunate circumstances if the assholes and looking-for-assholes-women are only acting in a reasonable manner and trying to attain a mate of the highest possible value.  But if you really want to get back at those beautiful women… just make lots of beautiful money and don’t let those aging, wrinkling, sagging women near a cent of it when they realize they made a mistake.

Bad Boys are great for weeding out all the immature shallow chicks.  Thanks!

So you are basically saying you don’t have the patience to wait for something worthwhile?

Why do women assume that nice guys aren’t being genuine? I’m a genuinely nice guy. I’m not an a**hole. Women are the problem. They don’t know what they want. Also why change someone? I’d never change a woman I was with. That’s insane!! Also, women want a guy who is genuine, but how can I be both a bad boy and be genuine? As a nice guy, if I was to become a “bad boy” then it would just be an act, as that’s not who I am; if it’s an act, then I’m not being genuine. I guess I’ll be single forever then. Although to be honest, the more of this sh*t I read about women and bad boys, the less attracted I’m becoming to them anyway.

stfu